Does a passenger have a duty to inform?

[Cameramonkey]

So I was traveling yesterday in OH which is a must inform state. I was a passenger in a vehicle and sometimes carry on these trips. (typically only when I am flying solo) Although we saw lots of police (including two stops on I70 with trunks popped and perps being handcuffed) we were not stopped. Two close calls, but no stops. Which got me to thinking...

As a passenger, do I have to inform in the event of a stop for a moving violation? Or am I allowed to keep my bacon hole shut until the officer decides to involve me in the stop by asking for my ID as well? Not that he necessarily should since I am merely a passenger and have done nothing wrong, but we all know there are "those officers" out there that like to go fishing. The driver is not armed, and not aware of my weapon (or for that matter that I EDC. She knows I train and shoot IDPA and thats it) and has no need/duty to inform herself.

My gut says that until I am addressed specifically and asked to identify myself I keep my mouth shut as I am not part of the interaction at that time and am merely a witness/bystander (bysitter? ). Once he asks for my ID I include my permission slip and inform at that time.

My reason for asking is typically this driver is my boss, who isnt exactly gun friendly. Not anti per se, just the type that sees no need for carrying, doesnt pay attention to politics or vote, or get involved in anything outside of bowling or work. She lives her life in her little workaholic bubble, oblivious to the world around us. So oblivious I dont even feel like trying to have the discussion about the need to EDC because she is just that oblivious. Some things are better left unsaid.

If I were to carry on one of these business trips and we were to be stopped, I really dont want to tip my hand unless absolutely necessary. I like her obliviousness. It helps our relationship flow smoothly. And I especially dont want to not say anything when I need to and cause a bigger ruckus because of it. (they ask to search the vehicle and she says "sure, I have nothing to hide!" like a good little sheeple Though if it got to that point, I get the feeling they would have asked for my ID by then... )

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Lawriter - ORC - 2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.

If a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as the result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the licensee has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the licensee currently possesses or has a loaded handgun; the licensee shall not knowingly disregard or fail to comply with lawful orders of a law enforcement officer given while the motor vehicle is stopped, knowingly fail to remain in the motor vehicle while stopped, or knowingly fail to keep the licensee's hands in plain sight after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves, unless directed otherwise by a law enforcement officer; and the licensee shall not knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the licensee's hands or fingers, in any manner in violation of division (E) of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code, after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves. Additionally, if a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a commercial motor vehicle that is stopped by an employee of the motor carrier enforcement unit for the purposes defined in section 5503.04 of the Revised Code and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the commercial motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform the employee of the unit who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the licensee has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the licensee currently possesses or has a loaded handgun.

 

[17 squirrel]

I would ask you first, is it acceptable for you to carry while you are working ?
And or to have a firearm in a company vehicle ?
What's company policy.....

 

[Gluemanz28]

IANAL but I would say a gun in the vehicle is a gun in the vehicle regardless of who is driving or has possession.

If you don't want to inform the driver I would not take it along.


The first thing I thought when I was reading the title was the Chris Rock skit "He got weed, he got weed"

 

[Cameramonkey]

Thanks BBI! I missed that part skimming the law on my iphone as she was weaving in and out of traffic doing 80+.

Its a personal vehicle, so Im in the clear in terms of corporate policy. Company policy is not in the buildings or company cars. There are other managers that also follow the same policy I do, and the company itself is pretty accepting. While we cant carry on the job, the owner had HR go out of their way to make sure we were proactively informed when the parking lot law was passed so were aware that they would not be attempting to prevent us from keeping them locked up per the law.

Ever have one of those relationships where the less they know the better? Yep. This is one of them.

Thanks all!

 

[voidsherpa]

What if you are the passenger and sleeping?

 

[MCgrease08]

I've was in a situation like this with a co-worker once and Mr. Murphy showed up with his stupid law and things ended up going south real fast.

I would think long and hard about whether you're ultimately OK with your boss finding out. Because you really can't anticipate all situations that might expose the gun.

I've posted this in other threads before, but it's a funny story, so I'll post it again for those who haven't seen it. Every bit of this is true.

I also work in a corporate office and we have a no weapons policy. But my cubicle is literally in a corner at the very end of the 3rd floor. If there were ever to be an active shooter scenario I could be trapped, since the nearest stairwell is about 40 - 50 feet away. So one day I decided to throw my .38 snubbie in my laptop bag and take it inside with me. I was testing the waters more than anything to see if this would be a viable means to carry while at work.

As Murphy's law would have it, I had completely forgotten that was the day I was supposed to ride with a co-worker down to the*Statehouse*in Indy for a meeting. Of course I couldn't very well leave my unattended bag and gun at my desk while I was gone, so I took it with me with the*intention*of leaving it in my co-worker's car while we went inside.

We had some items we were delivering to the Sec. of State's office, so when we arrived downtown at theStatehouse*we parked out front to unload the boxes. I left my bag in the backseat while we unloaded, and after we finished, my co-worker drove the car a few blocks away to park.

I start carrying the packages inside and waited for her to get back. Low and behold, when she arrived she was carrying my laptop bag. She handed it to me and said, "you left this in the car. I didn't want to leave it in plain sight while the car was parked, so I brought it back to you so you can keep an eye on it." Of course at this point we're right up on the security checkpoint and she starts putting her stuff through the x-ray machine, getting ready to walk through the metal detector.

I can't very well turn around and go back to the car. She has the keys and is already through the checkpoint. I did my best to try and casually ask the Sheriff's Deputy if I could leave my bag with him because there was a prohibited item inside. Of course he was like 90 years old and didn't hear me so he yells, "You got what inside your bag?"

I got closer and told him that I had a firearm inside but I didn't want my co-worker to know, and asked him to please give me some guidance. He motions to a state police trooper standing about 20 yards away and waves the trooper over. I try to explain the situation using my "inside voice" with my co-worker now looking back at me wondering what the hold-up is.

The trooper tells me my only option is to take it back to the car, under his supervision. He radios another trooper and requests a lock box be brought down to the security checkpoint. Now I'm standing there with two Indiana State troopers and a Marion County Sheriff's Deputy while my co-worker stares back at me. I have to ask her for her car keys while the trooper pulls my holstered firearm out of the bag and places it in the lock box. He then escorts me out of the building and personally walks me back to the car three blocks away so I can remove it from the lock box, put it back in the laptop bag and lock everything in the trunk.

After all was said and done it took nearly 20 minutes from the time I originally walked into the building with the gun, to the time I came back without it. When I returned, my co-worker was chatting with the other trooper, no doubt trying to figure out what exactly was going on. Now this co-worker isn't exactly my boss, but we work in the same department and she definitely outranks me. When we met up she said something to the effect of, "the trooper told me you had some tools or something in your bag?"*

I told her I had some prohibited items inside and left it at that, but I know she saw the trooper pull the gun out of the bag and put it in the lock box. This happened about three months ago and we haven't spoken about it since.

The moral of the story is, you never know what could happen during the day that could end up exposing your firearm. Best laid plans can go to hell real quick, and often due to circumstances out of your control.*

I don't work there anymore so I can laugh about this now, but after this happened I spent a month just waiting for someone from security to show up at my desk holding a card board box.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I've was in a situation like this with a co-worker once and Mr. Murphy showed up with his stupid law and things ended up going south real fast.

I would think long and hard about whether you're ultimately OK with your boss finding out. Because you really can't anticipate all situations that might expose the gun.

I've posted this in other threads before, but it's a funny story, so I'll post it again for those who haven't seen it. Every bit of this is true.

I don't work there anymore so I can laugh about this now, but after this happened I spent a month just waiting for someone from security to show up at my desk holding a card board box.

I appreciate the input. (and I remember this story)

Love my boss. She is awsesome. Great lady, supervisor, and all around good person. I too have situations on the road where I end up in non-permissive situations such as yours. On those runs I just dont carry. Luckilly I never am faced with a "hey, we need to stop at this jail on the way..." (all those no-gos are when I am flying solo and I am assisting one of our techs and are planned in advance)

I just dont feel like dealing with the questions. WAAAAY too much education required to bring her up to speed to become an informed citizen. I'm absolutely positive if we were pulled over my job would not be in jeopardy due to my informing. If she caught me actually carrying in the office it would be a different story, so I dont. But I just dont feel like pushing that rope uphill, so what she doesnt know wont hurt her.

 

[SchwansManDan]

I don't work there anymore so I can laugh about this now, but after this happened I spent a month just waiting for someone from security to show up at my desk holding a card board box.

LMAO! Loved the story, especially as someone who has had his boss and the RVP show up with a stack of cardboard boxes.

 

[dudley0]

Thanks BBI! I missed that part skimming the law on my iphone as she was weaving in and out of traffic doing 80+.

Its a personal vehicle, so Im in the clear in terms of corporate policy. Company policy is not in the buildings or company cars. There are other managers that also follow the same policy I do, and the company itself is pretty accepting. While we cant carry on the job, the owner had HR go out of their way to make sure we were proactively informed when the parking lot law was passed so were aware that they would not be attempting to prevent us from keeping them locked up per the law.

Ever have one of those relationships where the less they know the better? Yep. This is one of them.

Thanks all!

Back when I had a W2 if you were using your vehicle for work related trips it became the same as a company vehicle. If someone is getting paid mileage I would think this would be even more evident.

Of course it never stopped me from carrying in my truck, but I would check that.

 

[17 squirrel]

Back when I had a W2 if you were using your vehicle for work related trips it became the same as a company vehicle. If someone is getting paid mileage I would think this would be even more evident.

Of course it never stopped me from carrying in my truck, but I would check that.

I have wondered the same thing, if being reimbursed for mileage and or cartage does the Company you work for have the right to mandate what is and what can't be in your personally owned vehicle...within Indiana and surounding States.

 

[EyeCarry]

Lawriter - ORC - 2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.

What if you are the passenger and sleeping?

I am assuming you are being sarcastic but the words "knowingly" would seem to apply here. Of course, once awakened........

 

[eldirector]

BBI is on top of it. Gotta speak up if you are carrying in Ohio.

Sounds like you have already handled the boss/policy thing to your own satisfaction.

 

[youngda9]

What you have the duty to do is to know all of the rules for wherever you travel with a firearm. I suggest you read some more before going anywhere.
www.handgunlaw.us

 

[stephen87]

I have wondered the same thing, if being reimbursed for mileage and or cartage does the Company you work for have the right to mandate what is and what can't be in your personally owned vehicle...within Indiana and surounding States.

The company is not providing the vehicle, they are instead reimbursing you for your resources used on their time. No different than if they were reimbursing you for your uniforms.

 

[Mgderf]

If stopped, you need to IMMEDIATELY jump out of the car and do this, while screaming,

"I HAVE A GUN..."

 

[17 squirrel]

The company is not providing the vehicle, they are instead reimbursing you for your resources used on their time. No different than if they were reimbursing you for your uniforms.

I'm not so sure about that when you get paid cartage..

 

[Cameramonkey]

What you have the duty to do is to know all of the rules for wherever you travel with a firearm. I suggest you read some more before going anywhere.
www.handgunlaw.us

Which I have. Take a look at post #5. I missed the point about DTI being irrelevant to whether you are the driver or not during my checks. (I even have the CCW app on my iphone so all of the states' laws are at my fingertips)

 

[Dead Duck]

Does a passenger have a duty to inform?

This all depends.
If it's just the two of you, it's really harder to cover up. If you had control to the back window then maybe you could crack it slightly but without knowing how that particular car vents ahead of time, it would be difficult to pull off without her noticing. And then you'd be "That Guy".
You might as well let her rip and politely excuse yourself. It happens.

Now if there were other passengers with you, then no. Just quietly float it out and blame the other guy.
Much easier if there's a dog in the car......or a kid.

 

[GIJEW]

I would ask you first, is it acceptable for you to carry while you are working ?
And or to have a firearm in a company vehicle ?
What's company policy.....

Sounds like a secondary consideration. Depending on your occupation, where you work, and the time of day or night, you might have more immediate concerns.