A quick search just now found some old DoJ numbers from a report released in 1987. It stated the estimated 500,000 addicts committed an estimated 50,000,000 crimes per year at a cost to the economy of $46.9 billionWe spend 10s of billions of dollars every year "fighting" the drug war. Police pull people over on highways all over the country on pretexts just to be able to search their cars for drugs. Our bank accounts are watched for transactions that might be "suspicious", and people have cash taken from them regularly with no proof of wrong doing, simply because everyone knows only a criminal would have any use for cash.
Where is your "proof" that drugs equals crime? Did drugs equal crime before we outlawed them? Do drugs equal crime in the countries where they are legal? Blaming drugs for the actions of individuals is wrong. If a person commits a crime punish them for that crime. Don't punish them for putting a substance in their bodies that you think is going to make them commit some other crime.
A quick search just now found some old DoJ numbers from a report released in 1987. It stated the estimated 500,000 addicts committed an estimated 50,000,000 crimes per year at a cost to the economy of $46.9 billion
That is 100 crimes per addict per year, on average at roughly $970 per crime, and without a doubt those numbers have grown considerably in the interim
A separate report estimates that the annual cost of all aspects of the war on drugs is approximately $50 billion, so that cost is about a wash with the cost of drug based criminality from 1987 and probably less than the cost of such criminality today
You act as if you think that the people turning tricks actually want to, that they will somehow become independent business men and businesswomen if given the opportunity, and that drugs and addiction have nothing to do with itI support the legalization of drugs and prostitution.
You act as if you think that the people turning tricks actually want to, that they will somehow become independent business men and businesswomen if given the opportunity, and that drugs and addiction have nothing to do with it
Why does 'victimless' crime turn out to have so many victims
I agree with everything but your last sentence. Do what you say and legalize it all. The anti-smoking campaigns as you said seem to be working and it's completely legal well now the same as alcohol if you're 21.We should start and promote making all mind altering intoxication not cool.
The anti-smoking campaigns have worked pretty well to make smoking no longer cool. Something along that line would do well to promote not altering people's mental status with any chemical.
Bottom line, we shouldn't change any laws. Just change attitudes about how to live life.
I can't put it any better than BBI But I do offer you my condolences and can empathize myself. While not technically family my son's mother died from an OD. Although rather than blaming the drugs from the 40 yr comment you probably have a better case against Vietnam.My older brother left as a spark chaser on B52s and came home a pot smoking alcoholic and it took him more than 40 years to hit bottom, and by then his body was shot. He currently has about 1/3 of his bladder left after cancer, is catheterized all the time and is going blind from glaucoma, has COPD and his liver is barely hanging on
Can't say how much or how little to credit to the weed, but that life was often what seemed to drag him back under when he seemed to be making progress. I find the stuff and those who peddle it detestable, feeding off the misery of others just like any other drug dealer
I don't smoke, I don't drink to excess but I do drink a little scotch now and then or wine with dinner. I have no use for other drugs
There is still the time frame problem with regards to growing/processing, unless the grandson already grows. I do know a couple of people who use/used it for medical reasons, here are some examples a person I know suffered from severe migrains bad enough that they would have to go to the hospital for a shot. That meant they had to find someone to drive her there and back and being put down for at least the rest of the day. As in unable to do pretty much anything including housework. With MJ they could take a couple of puffs, be fine in a half hr or usually much less, and be able to function after.I was unaware that home grown cannabis could not be eaten. Who knew!
Next do the 80 year old women of color who don't drive and how we need to distort the entire system of checks and balances placed on voting just to accommodate those very, very few eligible voters so helpless that they can't make arrangements for themselves. It's the same argumentation
Nothing I propose would prevent grandma's grandson from growing some for her, he just couldn't sell it to grandma or sell it to acquaintances or strangers for profit
So, is grandma REALLY the problem here, or is there some other agenda
You do know that there have been multiple bills by Republicans put forth on this subject right? Include the much liked on this site Rep Lucas.When will we realize that the Dems won't stop at anything? Just regulate automatic guns.... Now they want everything banned. Legalize pot.... Then it's "the war on drugs failed", legalize the next drug, then the next, then it's legal to have just tiny amounts on you, then more and more.... They never stop. Just get vaxxed..... Then a booster, then another, it will be a mandatory yearly injection of chemicals and then more, the next manufactured virus, the next "crisis". It won't stop.
I personally don't like pot, and the people I know personally who do it, aren't recreational. It's their way of life. Order door dash, get fat, sit around praising Bernie Sanders and telling others to pay for their school and health care, etc. They are lazy, and cloud their minds. That's my experience. Obviously I can't say that is everyone, but man, even Hollywood portrays it as cool but the people doing it in the movies are bumbs. Lol. Heroine should be illegal. Obviously pot isn't anywhere near that, but it is definitely a slippery slope worth considering, especially medically.
To add on to KLB's post how about the case here in IN. Police were in an apartment building, smelled pot in the hallway, knocked on the door and heard "furtive" sounds, they then proceeded to kick in the door and enter, they claimed that they thought the sounds might indicate destruction of evidence. Entry was upheld by the INSC. So claiming they smelled pot and heard furtive sounds is now grounds for warrantless entry and search.If you list how, I may agree with you. If we legalize everything, then a meth lab can be allowed next door to my house. Nope, that can't happen. You want a heroine dealer on your street?? It's proven that drugs equals addicts which equals crime. They steal, assault, murder, destroy property, etc because of the drugs. Drugs ruin communities. That's a fact. Do you want a heroine addict breaking into your car and house to steal your stuff to pawn and get money for their drugs? Nope. They should be removed from society. Now I could agree they should be put in treatment centers for minor offenses, or first time offenses. But let's be honest, they get out and do it all over again. I'm not saying the war on drugs is perfect, but I'll say it worked in removing my neighbor from my neighborhood and terrorizing his wife and kids and walking into people's houses drugged out of his mind. I understand this is in a small scale. The big scale is the border, which we see every democrat open up and let it all in. So I'm reality, the war on drugs isn't being waged but Dems in govt, and then people go and say...."the war on drugs failed". Lol, it's not even being waged.
How many people do you know that actually want to go into work? I've known very few people that actually want to. And I do know one that while not wanting to choose to do so because it made her the most amount of money with the least amount of time/effort. She was a very high priced escort. Heck how many strippers want to do it? Yet it's legal.You act as if you think that the people turning tricks actually want to, that they will somehow become independent business men and businesswomen if given the opportunity, and that drugs and addiction have nothing to do with it
Why does 'victimless' crime turn out to have so many victims
50 billion spent to deter the availability of drugs, with attendant crimes to support drug habits that are almost certainly much higher than that $46.9 billion in the intervening 34 years. Why do you think that legalizing weed will stop cross border smuggling? So you legalize weed but you still have drug smuggling, addictive drugs, addicts and the crimes they commit to feed their habits. I'm questioning where the savings are supposed to come from since so many are making an economic argument about the cost of the war on drugs. do you somehow believe that lax enforcement will drive DOWN the rate of drug user criminality?Per your post the $50 billion was in addition to the $47 billion, it didn't prevent $47 billion. How are additive costs a wash?
Why do you think that legalizing weed will stop cross border smuggling? So you legalize weed but you still have drug smuggling, addictive drugs, addicts and the crimes they commit to feed their habits.
Did you learn nothing from Breaking Bad?50 billion spent to deter the availability of drugs, with attendant crimes to support drug habits that are almost certainly much higher than that $46.9 billion in the intervening 34 years. Why do you think that legalizing weed will stop cross border smuggling? So you legalize weed but you still have drug smuggling, addictive drugs, addicts and the crimes they commit to feed their habits. I'm questioning where the savings are supposed to come from since so many are making an economic argument about the cost of the war on drugs. do you somehow believe that lax enforcement will drive DOWN the rate of drug user criminality?
How much data on large smuggling operations is developed via information gotten from smaller players caught in the system.
I might buy some savings in the cost of incarceration if data didn't show that states that legalized had INCREASES in their prison populations unless they also passed criminal justice reform, as well as those two states that passed CJ reform only having a 5% decrease (CO) and 15% decrease (AK) respectively
State Prison Populations – Smart Approaches to Marijuana
learnaboutsam.org
The point being that the economic argument, that there are big savings to be had from legalization, appears to be bull****
If one can get pot at a dispensary they are not being upsold to harder drugs by a pusher, as we used to call them for good reason…
50 billion spent to deter the availability of drugs, with attendant crimes to support drug habits that are almost certainly much higher than that $46.9 billion in the intervening 34 years.
Why do you think that legalizing weed will stop cross border smuggling? So you legalize weed but you still have drug smuggling, addictive drugs, addicts and the crimes they commit to feed their habits.
do you somehow believe that lax enforcement will drive DOWN the rate of drug user criminality?
I might buy some savings in the cost of incarceration if data didn't show that states that legalized had INCREASES in their prison populations unless they also passed criminal justice reform, as well as those two states that passed CJ reform only having a 5% decrease (CO) and 15% decrease (AK) respectively
State Prison Populations – Smart Approaches to Marijuana
learnaboutsam.org
The point being that the economic argument, that there are big savings to be had from legalization, appears to be bull****
As someone said,"facts not in evidence".The narrative I seek to refute is that legalization will free up all that money being used to incarcerate people - not the one your seeking to deflect toOr how many times the website says it can't be tied to legalization for the various states? Or doesn't say who's in prison? I'd rather prison space be used for longer sentences for violent offenders than a bunch of petty dope arrests, and since violent crime is up...
I find lines like this are often the focus of those who have no real response to any of the points made in the veritable wall o' text that precedes them.I find lines like this are often spoken by 'sailors' who have never left the dock
I hope you know wherefrom you speak. The Founding Fathers understood that only a moral people could successfully govern themselves, and those who got too far into their cups or any other excess would soon starve. Such moral and physical constraints on proper behavior no longer apply, and liberty is now the kid brother of anarchy
Indiana Democrats want to legalize medical and recreational marijuana. They say it will generate a lot of tax revenue.
Obviously, the next step is to legalize prostitution. It will also generate tax revenue and attract conventions (except the FFA) to the state. Additionally, it will provide employment for unskilled young people who don't want to bother with schooling.
Add purple if you think necessary.
To what end? Record overdoses, records prison populations and a criminal justice system so backed up that we have men accused of murdering more than one person being released on bond for a pittance because there is no more room to house them.50 billionspentwasted to deter the availability of drugs
As someone said,"facts not in evidence".The narrative I seek to refute is that legalization will free up all that money being used to incarcerate people - not the one your seeking to deflect to
Oregon's own official information used as the source for the Oregon subsection
Department of Corrections : Data Analytics & Reporting : Research and Information Requests : State of Oregon
Information on the Research and Evaluation division of the Oregon Department of Corrections, statistical reports, and how to submit research proposals and requests.www.oregon.gov
Washington's own official information used as the source of the Washington subsection
Prison inmate population | Office of Financial Management
Prison inmate population Fiscal Year June Inmate Population 2023 13,538 2022 12,972 2021 13,693 2020 15,829 2019 17,560 2018 18,112 2017 17,868 2016 17,578 2015 17,433 2014 17,502 2013 17,404 2012 17,087 2011 17,058 2010 17,096 2009 17,295 2008 17,104 2007 17,121 2006 16,808 2005 16,663 2004...ofm.wa.gov
Alaska's own official information used as the source of the Alaska subsection
Can't really include Colorado in the list. The links are there to official Colorado publications, but they no longer work for me. It isn't that there is no info there, it is that access is denied - so I guess it isn't public information anymore
But speaking of propaganda, I can certainly see why you want to keep focusing only on DC to try to call into question all of the results. I get that you don't like the way the information is presented, but the information itself is sound
I stand by my assertion that legalization does not free up anywhere near the claimed resources to be used elsewhere - not in enforcement and not in corrections. The reference to 'facts not in evidence' is in reference to your intimation that violent crime is up and suggesting that is why incarcerations are up in Ganja states, without providing ANY proof