Defending within your home

[beararms1776]

No you're not. You're a wolf in sheepdog's clothing. You advocate murder cloaked in the guise of self-defense, while you deliberately (and admittedly) seek confrontation with the hope and intent of harming someone.

That kind of person is no better than the criminal. You just sound like a bully whose balls are bigger than his brain (and you probably think that's a compliment). You're the kind of person that makes it harder for citizens to keep the right to defend their homes and families from being taken away by the criminal-loving liberals, who are just aching to portray all gun owners as blood-thirsty, trigger-happy imbeciles.

Get on your horse and just ride quietly into the sunset, will you?

I've thrown to many bones and couldn't rep ya on this one.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

In my opinion, handle the threat then call the police. I'm single, so I have no one to call 911. That's why I would take the threat out first, then call the police.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

No you're not. You're a wolf in sheepdog's clothing. You advocate murder cloaked in the guise of self-defense, while you deliberately (and admittedly) seek confrontation with the hope and intent of harming someone.

One man's self defense is another man's murder. I see where you land. Not everyone has the heart to be a sheepdog, and most sheep view the sheepdog as wolves. I can respect that.
I'm the guy that will pop an armed robber at Wendy's who's pointing a gun at your daughter behind the counter because he wants the $35 in the register drawer, and then finish my sandwich. I'm the guy that will go outside at 4AM to see if someone is breaking into my house, then go see if my neighbor's house is OK, not only because I value their lives as much as my own family's, but because I couldn't live with my cowardace if something happened to them that I could have prevented. You sound like the guy that won't. That's OK. The world need both of us.

I advocate protecting one's self from all enemies, foreign and domestic. Criminals are domestic threats.

That kind of person is no better than the criminal. You just sound like a bully whose balls are bigger than his brain (and you probably think that's a compliment). You're the kind of person that makes it harder for citizens to keep the right to defend their homes and families from being taken away by the criminal-loving liberals, who are just aching to portray all gun owners as blood-thirsty, trigger-happy imbeciles.

See my previous statement about sheep confusing sheepdogs with wolves. Not having small balls or a little brain, I don't know what it's like. Yeah, I'll take it as a complement. Yes, it is my fault for being willing to protect myself. I'm the reason that leftistas hate guns. Dang it, you've outed me.

Get on your horse and just ride quietly into the sunset, will you?

Yippee ky-yea, ...

 

[JHAWK1980]

I've thrown to many bones and couldn't rep ya on this one.

Got it covered.

 

[JHAWK1980]

Yippee ky-yea, ...

Please think about what you are saying on a open FORUM. I don't know you but I would hate to see you go to jail because you "DEFENDED" your home. The media would go crazy with your posts.

It's clear that we all have our own opinion of "defense". I value LIFE and if that makes me a sheep in your eyes, so be it.


Need a bodyguard?
I'd die for ya.
--Randy Quaid--
Vegas Vacation

 

[Son of Liberty]

If they broke in while you were there and you couldn't see if they were armed because it's dark and you took action, you could get in trouble for the fact they weren't armed?

Its like this, you break into my house in the middle of the night, your getting dropped. Period. I don't need a knife or anything for that matter, you are inside my house unauthorized, and I will not give them a chance to put me down, trying to decide if they are armed.
Plus we do have a castle law I believe and I know for a fact I don't have a duty to retreat, even if I did by law have to try to escape first before using force, I wouldn't.l
This is my house, my stuff and my family and im not running or ***** footing around with the safety of any of it.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Please think about what you are saying on a open FORUM.

Wow, I never thought of that. Thanks.

I don't know you but I would hate to see you go to jail because you "DEFENDED" your home. The media would go crazy with your posts.

When I have to defend my home the last thing I'm going to worry about is what the media thinks of me. I'm not ashamed to be totally truthful about the way I feel about it. If it helps someone else man-up in that situation, it's all good. Crime goes away when the criminal weighs the risk and determines it to be too high. I'm not a coddler. That gene was stripped out in boot camp 30 years ago.

It's clear that we all have our own opinion of "defense". I value LIFE and if that makes me a sheep in your eyes, so be it.

Valuing LIFE has nothing to do with it, but if it makes you feel better, so do I. I value life very much. I've put mine at risk for this country. I value my life, the lives of my family and friends, my neighbors, people I have relationships with, and good people I've never met.

Need a bodyguard?
I'd die for ya.
--Randy Quaid--
Vegas Vacation

I have no use for anyone that would do harm to someone else, and I don't cry for the lost or wicked. God will sort them out.

 

[TRWXXA]

One man's self defense is another man's murder. I see where you land. Not everyone has the heart to be a sheepdog, and most sheep view the sheepdog as wolves. I can respect that.
I'm the guy that will pop an armed robber at Wendy's who's pointing a gun at your daughter behind the counter because he wants the $35 in the register drawer, and then finish my sandwich. I'm the guy that will go outside at 4AM to see if someone is breaking into my house, then go see if my neighbor's house is OK, not only because I value their lives as much as my own family's, but because I couldn't live with my cowardace if something happened to them that I could have prevented. You sound like the guy that won't. That's OK. The world need both of us.

I advocate protecting one's self from all enemies, foreign and domestic. Criminals are domestic threats.

See my previous statement about sheep confusing sheepdogs with wolves. Not having small balls or a little brain, I don't know what it's like. Yeah, I'll take it as a complement. Yes, it is my fault for being willing to protect myself. I'm the reason that leftistas hate guns. Dang it, you've outed me.
Yippee ky-yea, ...

The wolf is always trying to convince the sheep that it's a sheepdog.

Don't try to invoke the oath of enlistment. I took that oath (did you take it, or did you just think your screen name would make everyone think you're a bad@ss?), and so did almost all of my closest friends -- a couple of them died being faithful to it. We all know the difference between defense and murder. You apparently neither know nor care. That oath is not an excuse to wantanly kill. Your attitude is a disgrace to the oath, so please don't wave it around as your battle flag.

Make no mistake... I too am perfectly willing to kill to protect myself, my family, my friends, and other innocents from harm. The difference between you and me is that you WANT to do it, and will go looking for the opportunity to do it. That's pathetic. Your like a firefighter that turns to arson so he can rush in and be the hero.

A sheepdog can spot a wolf no matter how the wolf disguises itself.

You're a wolf.

 

[valposhooter]

Good idea

Well if it ever happens ( I hope it doesn't) I'm going to call my lawyer and my wife will call the law. It's part of our "shtf plan".

911 calls are recorded, by calling you may be waiving your right to remain silent. You may have a duty to report a crime, if your wife does it for you, consider it reported.

Finally, anything that you say to your wife (as long as you stay married) is privileged. Just ask Tiger Woods about that one.

 

[Prometheus]

Gun confiscation is going to be totally dependent on the departments policies.

In some cases we hear of the police helping the 80 y/o woman reload her revolver for her before they leave the scene and in others we hear of months worth of fighting and eventual lawsuits to get their property back.

Personally in cases of home invasion where the shooter admits to shooting and says "this is the gun", I see no point in confiscating the firearm. This is one of the few times where recording the guns serial number may be appropriate.

If it was confiscated for any reason, it should be returned ASAP. And by ASAP I mean however long it takes to fire the gun into the water tank to get a casing and bullet sample. That should be measured in hours, not days and certainly not weeks.

Fourth amendment people.

 

[JoshuaW]

What if someone was kicking your door in rather than trying to pick the lock? Or what if he was really good at picking locks? Or for the window once he realizes he's made, whats to stop him from just diving through the window rather than be stealthy? Once he is in your home crap is going to happen fast. Whats the general rule, if they are within 21 feet he can reach you. Or what is to stop him from shooting through the door at the sound of your voice? For myself I would want to stop the scum as early as possible and end the violence aimed towards myself and my family. And if someone is breaking in while I am home, for safety I have to assume they mean violence towards myself or my family. I'm not saying I wouldn't shout a warning, just that it may depend on the circumstances.

And I don't believe we have to seek a non-violent end to the conflict, that also will depend on the situation.

If he is good at picking locks, he will probably be in before you can respond. You are either good, or you are not. Or you are a moron with a paper clip and no form of torsion.

For the record, if someone is trying to pick my lock and I am inside, I am going whip the door open. You will knock the intruder to the ground. At that point their actions determine the outcome. Lock picks are usually cut sheet metal. They will cut you. Picks and rakes normally have pointed hooks. I would not want to get attacked with one, or stabbed in the leg by one.

 

[Arm America]

Defending "within" your home is the topic.

I don't believe I'm going to attempt a conversation with the BG,
I sure as hell will not retreat in mine.

The odds are against it even happening to me.
If it does, the actions I choose to make won't be listed on a public forum.

 

[JHAWK1980]

Defending "within" your home is the topic.

I don't believe I'm going to attempt a conversation with the BG,
I sure as hell will not retreat in mine.

The odds are against it even happening to me.
If it does, the actions I choose to make won't be listed on a public forum.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

The wolf is always trying to convince the sheep that it's a sheepdog.

Don't try to invoke the oath of enlistment. I took that oath (did you take it, or did you just think your screen name would make everyone think you're a bad@ss?), and so did almost all of my closest friends -- a couple of them died being faithful to it. We all know the difference between defense and murder. You apparently neither know nor care. That oath is not an excuse to wantanly kill. Your attitude is a disgrace to the oath, so please don't wave it around as your battle flag.

Make no mistake... I too am perfectly willing to kill to protect myself, my family, my friends, and other innocents from harm. The difference between you and me is that you WANT to do it, and will go looking for the opportunity to do it. That's pathetic. Your like a firefighter that turns to arson so he can rush in and be the hero.

A sheepdog can spot a wolf no matter how the wolf disguises itself.
You're a wolf.

I don't think you like me very much Chris. I don't know why.

Have you ever been in a situation where you have had to contemplate saving one life by ending another? Are you an LEO? Have you ever been one? Or are you just another wannabe HK USP gunslinger who drives a wannabe police car because it's cool?

So here's a scenerio. Say you work for a large company in Indy. Let's say RCI. Maybe you're in the Customer Service group. No, you're a smart guy. You've got a couple college degrees. Let's make it IT. People look to you for leadership. You're a manager.

A man walks into the building carrying a gun. Not OC or CC, but in their hand. Everyone's confused, shocked. No one knows him. He hasn't pointed it at anyone yet, but you know it takes less than a half a second to raise a weapon and fire 5 rounds, and if he raises his weapon to fire, you can't reflexively respond before he shoots someone. You don't know if his gun is loaded. It could be. What if it is? What if it isn't? Would you proactively shoot him? Are you willing to let innocent people that you know die in some misguided fit of self-rightousness? Will you assume that the person walking through the building means no harm until they commit some act? Or will you run and hide in your pretend police car sitting quietly and unassumingly in the parking lot?

See it's simple to take the easy way out. It's much harder to resolve to yourself what you WILL do in a situation, and then do it. Inaction and hesitation breeds more inaction and hesitation. It's a cycle. And once you start down that path, you won't recover. Hesitation turns into cowardace. Cowards have no reason to carry guns.

Me? I'd take the risk that he is there to do someone, anyone, harm. I'd drop him. No questions asked. Not a word uttered. Not a tear shed. Do I have a problem with that? No. Is it legal? Yes. Would I be prepared to be fired, arrested and prosecuted? Yep. But no one that works with me would be harmed that day. Could I be wrong? Yep. But he committed suicide as soon as he walked into the building with a gun in his hand looking like he was going to fire. In any event, would I want to shoot him? No. Would I feel like a hero? No. Would it make me feel big and invincible? No. Like a bully? No. Would it be easier to run the other way? Yep. Would I feel like somebody had to step up? Yep. Because my failure to act could well cost other people their lives. In the end I am more content explaining my actions to 12 jurors than my inaction to a single widow.

That's the difference between sheepdogs and wolves. The sheepdog doesn't run and hide. The sheepdog puts himself between the wolf and the sheep. The sheepdog takes the attack to the wolf, and doesn't stop until the wolf is dead and the sheep are safe.

In the end, I don't advocate murder. I advocate peace. Peace through strength. Peace because the wolves know the sheepdogs are out there, and the wolves fear the sheepdog more than the potential reward of a sheep sandwich.

 

[MadCity Hoosier]

So here's a scenerio. Say you work for a large company in Indy. Let's say RCI. Maybe you're in the Customer Service group. No, you're a smart guy. You've got a couple college degrees. Let's make it IT. People look to you for leadership. You're a manager.

A man walks into the building carrying a gun. Not OC or CC, but in their hand. Everyone's confused, shocked. No one knows him. He hasn't pointed it at anyone yet, but you know it takes less than a half a second to raise a weapon and fire 5 rounds, and if he raises his weapon to fire, you can't reflexively respond before he shoots someone. You don't know if his gun is loaded. It could be. What if it is? What if it isn't? Would you proactively shoot him? Are you willing to let innocent people that you know die in some misguided fit of self-rightousness? Will you assume that the person walking through the building means no harm until they commit some act? Or will you run and hide in your pretend police car sitting quietly and unassumingly in the parking lot?

See it's simple to take the easy way out. It's much harder to resolve to yourself what you WILL do in a situation, and then do it. Inaction and hesitation breeds more inaction and hesitation. It's a cycle. And once you start down that path, you won't recover. Hesitation turns into cowardace. Cowards have no reason to carry guns.

Me? I'd take the risk that he is there to do someone, anyone, harm. I'd drop him. No questions asked. Not a word uttered. Not a tear shed. Do I have a problem with that? No. Is it legal? Yes. Would I be prepared to be fired, arrested and prosecuted? Yep. But no one that works with me would be harmed that day. Could I be wrong? Yep. But he committed suicide as soon as he walked into the building with a gun in his hand looking like he was going to fire. In any event, would I want to shoot him? No. Would I feel like a hero? No. Would it make me feel big and invincible? No. Like a bully? No. Would it be easier to run the other way? Yep. Would I feel like somebody had to step up? Yep. Because my failure to act could well cost other people their lives. In the end I am more content explaining my actions to 12 jurors than my inaction to a single widow.

That's the difference between sheepdogs and wolves. The sheepdog doesn't run and hide. The sheepdog puts himself between the wolf and the sheep. The sheepdog takes the attack to the wolf, and doesn't stop until the wolf is dead and the sheep are safe.

In the end, I don't advocate murder. I advocate peace. Peace through strength. Peace because the wolves know the sheepdogs are out there, and the wolves fear the sheepdog more than the potential reward of a sheep sandwich.

I can't believe I'm wasting more of my time responding to this garbage, but here I sit, trying to figure out someone else's motives. Some of what I have read here is so absurd that I have to believe that you are either joking or just trolling. And do you have a fettish with canids (or sheep)? There seems to be much focus in your posts about 4-legged critters, maybe alluding deep personal identity issues or maybe its a Freudian defense mechanism. I can ask a good psychologist for a consult if you'd like.

So, a guy walks into a public place with a firearm in hand. That's all the info you've got, and you open fire? Seriously? Can you imagine what it would be like if those whose job it is to protect us (LEOs) shot everybody they saw in public with a weapon in hand? I would have been dead back at the ripe old age of 6. I'm glad the LEOs at the Indy 1500 didn't take me out tonight b/d I had a gun in my hand. Kids with squirt guns would be shot on sight. We would live in a society where nobody would dare go anywhere outside thier home, lest their keys, purse, cell phone, etc be misconstrued as a weapon, thus giving our local gun-toting cowboys reason to open fire.

What if the man walked in with a sword?
What if he had a ball bat?
What if he had a bow and arrow...sling shot...water pistol? Would you shoot him every time?

What if he was just getting ready to yell, "Somebody call the police, I just shot a thug in self-defense." Or maybe he came in to return the boss's gun that he borrowed for the weekend, since those at RCI are generally aware that their boss loves to share his passion for the shooting sports. Or maybe he came in to quietly ask the secretary if she knew of any gun-owners that worked there, as he just found this loaded pistol laying under a car in the parking lot.

You seem willing to explain yourself to a jury. If you think you'll have to explain your actions to a jury, then you probably did, or came very close to doing, something wrong. You either crossed the line or are so close that the prosecutor decided to file a case against you. If you shot somebody and it was clearly justified, you'd never end up in court. The prosecutor knows he does not have a case--as you were justified in using lethal force. According to what you posted above, you should not be in court. You would be in prison.

 

[JHAWK1980]

According to what you posted above, you should not be in court. You would be in prison.

 

[JHAWK1980]

A man walks into the building carrying a gun. Not OC or CC, but in their hand. Everyone's confused, shocked. No one knows him. He hasn't pointed it at anyone yet, but you know it takes less than a half a second to raise a weapon and fire 5 rounds, and if he raises his weapon to fire, you can't reflexively respond before he shoots someone. You don't know if his gun is loaded. It could be. What if it is? What if it isn't? Would you proactively shoot him? Are you willing to let innocent people that you know die in some misguided fit of self-rightousness? Will you assume that the person walking through the building means no harm until they commit some act?

Since you have a few "what if's". What if the armed man who walked into the office was LEO? What if one of your co-workers was a child predator and he was comming in to make an arrest?

See it's simple to take the easy way out. It's much harder to resolve to yourself what you WILL do in a situation, and then do it. Inaction and hesitation breeds more inaction and hesitation. It's a cycle. And once you start down that path, you won't recover. Hesitation turns into cowardace. Cowards have no reason to carry guns.

My Grandfather (a WWII VET) once told me "a coward hides behind his gun". I carry for personal protection, I'm not LEO, I am not a super hero. I have a family whom I love and would give my life for. I'm a coward because I would STOP A THREAT without trying to end a life.

In the end, I don't advocate murder. I advocate peace

I'll let you answer this one.

I'd drop him. No questions asked. Not a word uttered. Not a tear shed. Do I have a problem with that? No.

It is not my intention to offend. I apologize if I have. Again this is my

Thanks, James

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I can't believe I'm wasting more of my time responding to this garbage, but here I sit, trying to figure out someone else's motives. Some of what I have read here is so absurd that I have to believe that you are either joking or just trolling. And do you have a fettish with canids (or sheep)? There seems to be much focus in your posts about 4-legged critters, maybe alluding deep personal identity issues or maybe its a Freudian defense mechanism. I can ask a good psychologist for a consult if you'd like.

Noobs. Read the whole thread. You'll understand this"fettish with canids (or sheep)". I'm ignoring the rest of you personal attack. Not germane to the discussion. But I do appreciate your concern for my mental stability Alan.

So, a guy walks into a public place with a firearm in hand. That's all the info you've got, and you open fire? Seriously? Can you imagine what it would be like if those whose job it is to protect us (LEOs) shot everybody they saw in public with a weapon in hand? I would have been dead back at the ripe old age of 6. I'm glad the LEOs at the Indy 1500 didn't take me out tonight b/d I had a gun in my hand. Kids with squirt guns would be shot on sight. We would live in a society where nobody would dare go anywhere outside thier home, lest their keys, purse, cell phone, etc be misconstrued as a weapon, thus giving our local gun-toting cowboys reason to open fire.

Reading comprehension must not be a skill easily mastered. I said:

But he committed suicide as soon as he walked into the building with a gun in his hand looking like he was going to fire.

What part of "looking like he was going to fire" is difficult to understand?

What if the man walked in with a sword?
What if he had a ball bat?
What if he had a bow and arrow...sling shot...water pistol? Would you shoot him every time?

Shoot somone with a sword? No, there's time to talk first. But if he gets within 20 feet of me holding it in a menacing manner, he's going down.
Baseball bat? See sword.
Bow and arrow? If he has an arrow cocked and loaded (or whatever you do with one. You're a much bigger expert with such devices than I am) and looks like he's gonna shoot something, then yeah, I'd probably shoot him. Not many deer roam the halls of RCI, and the ones that do are permanently out of season.

What if he was just getting ready to yell, "Somebody call the police, I just shot a thug in self-defense." Or maybe he came in to return the boss's gun that he borrowed for the weekend, since those at RCI are generally aware that their boss loves to share his passion for the shooting sports. Or maybe he came in to quietly ask the secretary if she knew of any gun-owners that worked there, as he just found this loaded pistol laying under a car in the parking lot.

Please refer to the part about reading comprehension.

You seem willing to explain yourself to a jury. If you think you'll have to explain your actions to a jury, then you probably did, or came very close to doing, something wrong. You either crossed the line or are so close that the prosecutor decided to file a case against you. If you shot somebody and it was clearly justified, you'd never end up in court. The prosecutor knows he does not have a case--as you were justified in using lethal force.

Do you know what the prosecutor winning percentage in Indiana is in criminal cases? 57%. Brizzi's is 54% I think, in the largest county in the state. That's barely better than a flip of the coin. Just because you're charged doesn't mean you'll be found guilty, and in any case, in the scenerio presented I can easily defend the rational that I used to protect people around me. He entered the building, was walking around with a gun, and looked like he was going to fire. That's a pretty clear cut case to me.

According to what you posted above, you should not be in court. You would be in prison.

Actually, first you go to court, then if you get 12 people that lack reading comprehension skills then you go to prison.

Please. Read first, write later.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Since you have a few "what if's". What if the armed man who walked into the office was LEO? What if one of your co-workers was a child predator and he was comming in to make an arrest?

Good question. As a former LEO I can answer with a certain amount of insider knowledge, but not necessarily with absolute authority.

1. Police don't generally walk to make a felony arrest alone.
2. They generally don't enter a highly populated building in a tactical mode without uniforms on because there is a higher potential for collateral damage.
3. I would most likely know that the LEO was an officer by the uniform and badge.

My Grandfather (a WWII VET) once told me "a coward hides behind his gun". I carry for personal protection, I'm not LEO, I am not a super hero. I have a family whom I love and would give my life for. I'm a coward because I would STOP A THREAT without trying to end a life.

I'll let you answer this one.

Your grandfater was a wise man. In the Internet age, I would change the saying a bit.

A bully hides behind a gun. A coward hides behind his keyboard. I don't think you're either.

I understand carrying for personal protection. I understand about not being a super hero, and not wanting to take a life. All laudable. I have friends with guns that have them because they like to hunt, but know in their hearts the could never kill someone. They don't carry a gun.

Enter the sheep / sheepdog / wolf analogy. Sheep run when they see the wolf. They know that the weakest, slowest, oldest or youngest among them will fall prey in an attack. They know that as long as they remain in the center of the herd, they'll likely be safe. In the end, sheep care only about their own self-preservation.

You carry a gun for personal protection because you have to meet a higher threshold before you point a gun at someone and shoot them. I carry a gun to protect those in my immediate sphere of influence because I am prepared to end an armed confrontation regardless of whether I am a direct participant or not. That doesn't make either of us good or bad. It makes us different.

There's a long standing debate about whether an armed individual should take action or be a good witness. I don't know you, but again I would rather explain to a jury how I shot and killed a bad guy than tell you how your wife or children died, knowing I could have done something to see them home to you safely.

It is not my intention to offend. I apologize if I have. Again this is my

Thanks, James

I'm not offended. I think it's a good discussion. My ? Being unprepared to protect yourself most likely means you won't when you need to. You've made a decision. While I disagree with it, I respect it. I don't have your life experience and you don't have mine. That's what makes us all different.

 

[JHAWK1980]

I'm not offended. I think it's a good discussion. My ? Being unprepared to protect yourself most likely means you won't when you need to. You've made a decision. While I disagree with it, I respect it. I don't have your life experience and you don't have mine. That's what makes us all different.

I never said I was unprepared to protect myself. On three different occasions I have had to draw down on people. I made a choice and am happy with the outcome on all three.
I am not saying that I completely disagree with what your saying.

In a previous post you stated that you would shoot the armed robber at wendys. I agree, no questions asked, not a word uttered. But as far as taking that persons life, I would try
not to. I would attempt to stop the threat
without taking a life.

If I draw down, open fire, hit the BG center
mass and he goes down, screaming stop I give up, he will remain at gunpoint until LEO gets there to take over. That is my example of self defense.

You carry a gun for personal protection because you have to meet a higher threshold before you point a gun at someone and shoot them.

I don't understand this.

There's a long standing debate about whether an armed individual should take action or be a good witness. I don't know you, but again I would rather explain to a jury how I shot and killed a bad guy than tell
you how your wife or children died, knowing
I could have done something to see them
home to you safely.

I agree with this statement. I would defend a stranger just as quick as I would my own family.