Coronavirus II

[ditcherman]

Cheap gas is fun, but I’m concerned about the damage the cheap imported crude oil that makes this possible might be doing to our domestic energy producers.

Oil prices can actually go negative, some Canadian processors have actually paid to have their oil taken.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ccn.com/this-is-how-oil-prices-can-crash-below-0-yes-really/

 

[ditcherman]

Surprised this hasn’t been mentioned. As much as we can complain about our lawmakers at least they’re looking forward. Does he think he’ll live forever?
No succession plan for U.K. prime minister.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com...n-plan-as-boris-johnson-battles-covid-19/amp/

 

[IndyBeerman]

Oh, oh,oh,oh, I got this one, we ban guns if we can save one life... That's what this is sounding like...

This is not a wipe out the population situation, as I understand it, we all are going to have to fight it to get future immunity. They said "flatten the curve", not keep everyone from getting it. That flattening the curve created a new curve of death that may not swamp hospitals in a few days but will kill more people the C-19 will.

If you cannot see the lies piling up take off the blinders...

I can see right now, no matter what proof is brought before you will dispute anything, it's more than just flattening the curve. If you can prevent the spread to a new host, it prevents the transmission to another person and the vicious cycle that has transposed over this whole crisis. Each ensuing cycle will over burden resources that have already been stretched thin because of the physical and mental burdens placed upon our first responders and medical providers, they are human.

While it may not be a wipe the population event, 35 percent of the US population is over 50, so 114 million give a take a few can be effected along with younger ones. Can we take a hit like that, no we can't, no country can.

So please don't try to morph this into a anti 2nd style argument because that is a apple to oranges argument. I already have a friend in ICU because of a idiot co-worker got him infected because even though he had all the signs and symptoms, he was hiding it with Ibuprofen and cough drops. May you be lucky enough to not get this.

 

[Vigilant]

Sweet.

I'll get our findings typed up and submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine pronto.

Lets just say, I’ve been drinking more than my fair share of Bulleit over the last few weeks, I’m also out in this everyday trying to find jobs to keep afloat, and I’m still OK, so there may be something to the internal sanitizer theory? Costco has great pricing on 1.75 L booze if you didn’t already know. In order to save money, though, I’ve broken out the “Doomsday Bank Account” and have been consuming it. Id forgotten how bland Jim Beam was.

 

[T.Lex]

Surprised this hasn’t been mentioned. As much as we can complain about our lawmakers at least they’re looking forward. Does he think he’ll live forever?
No succession plan for U.K. prime minister.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com...n-plan-as-boris-johnson-battles-covid-19/amp/

That's kinda misleading. The UK has a parliamentary system so it is kinda as simple as having a vote. The monarch is still the head of state. This kinda isn't a big deal.

 

[nonobaddog]

That's kinda misleading. The UK has a parliamentary system so it is kinda as simple as having a vote. The monarch is still the head of state. This kinda isn't a big deal.

Right. They can redo their government much faster than we ever could.

 

[Trigger Time]

Like some of us have said before we think we already had the China virus back in December or January. Now this is gaining momentum and I'm sure they'll eventually prove Covid19 was already here and spreading long before we started locking stuff down and killing our economy.
Let's find out fast so we can open stuff back up. If you are very vulnerable use precautions and you will be fine.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...9t0AsT0ihaJujZlTuPwvyAMZf-YlWMcNVV4ytv1s6eJWk

 

[nonobaddog]

When one looks at where we are now with this wuhan virus, I don't see the importance of whether or not it was first here in January vs December.

 

[T.Lex]

When one looks at where we are now with this wuhan virus, I don't see the importance of whether or not it was first here in January vs December.

I see that as part of the blame game, at this point. It asks the question, "Why did we not see the potential effects of this earlier?" If we had caught it earlier, we may have been able to end it earlier.

Honestly, it is kinda the same as the analysis about why we didn't know terrorists were training to become commercial pilots and why we didn't know the Japanese fleet was getting ready to attack our coast. (Or if we did know those things, why we didn't do anything about it.)

 

[Phase2]

Like some of us have said before we think we already had the China virus back in December or January. Now this is gaining momentum and I'm sure they'll eventually prove Covid19 was already here and spreading long before we started locking stuff down and killing our economy.
Let's find out fast so we can open stuff back up.

Locking stuff down was never about preventing entry of the disease. It was already here and spreading. It was about seriously slowing down the spread. That appears to be exactly what has happened.

I totally understand about the damage to the economy, but understanding the sequence of events is necessary to understanding where we are now and how we got here.

If you are very vulnerable use precautions and you will be fine.

~15,000 (and counting) Americans would disagree with you if they were still alive.

 

[chipbennett]

Down East is my preferred cider,but getting it in little Two Harbors MN or even Duluth is not happening.

Good man!

You should still have some decent options in MN. There are several cideries in Michigan that deliver regionally.

 

[chipbennett]

Brief (sorta) follow up on this. The ISDH and CDC actually have published directions on this.
https://coronavirus.in.gov/files/NCHS Final Guidance for Reporting COVID-19 Deaths_04022020.pdf

It is fairly dense, partly because it is intended (I think) to be practical for a very narrow group of people who already know the lingo. Importantly:



So there's a fair bit of discretion on the "close calls" about what to put down.

Also, for clarity, this is the tail end of a section that goes into great detail about how practitioners are supposed to document a death involving COVID-19. Even down to what line on a form to put COVID-19.

I'm 100% for clarity and standardization in reporting. With data, garbage in = garbage out. Everyone reporting data differently helps no one.

But if these guidelines are being implemented (and, especially, encouraged to be implemented) as COVID-19 present = COVID-19 cause of death, then that's a major problem.

 

[Phase2]

When one looks at where we are now with this wuhan virus, I don't see the importance of whether or not it was first here in January vs December.

It should be understood as part of the overall understanding of it's spread, but it is being used as a talking point to downplay this disease somehow. It appears the disease was first contracted in China in November, was noticed by China in early December and has been spreading ever since. I wouldn't be at all shocked that people were flying from China to the US and the rest of the world with this disease earlier than January. The Chinese didn't do their first real lockdown until 1/23/20 and due to the way they implemented it, 5 million (of 11 million) Chinese fled Wuhan and no doubt some of them took this gift with them around China and the world in a major wave of carriers.

 

[chipbennett]

When one looks at where we are now with this wuhan virus, I don't see the importance of whether or not it was first here in January vs December.

It makes a huge difference. Virus start spreading in November/December leading to 60K deaths (what might be representative of what really happened) is worlds different from Virus start spreading in February/March leading to 200K to 1MM+ deaths (what was largely a scare tactic).

 

[T.Lex]

I'm 100% for clarity and standardization in reporting. With data, garbage in = garbage out. Everyone reporting data differently helps no one.

But if these guidelines are being implemented (and, especially, encouraged to be implemented) as COVID-19 present = COVID-19 cause of death, then that's a major problem.

Yeah, but one thing I gleaned from that is that it isn't nearly that simple. The clinicians (who I think we kinda have no choice but to trust) still make the determination.

If someone positive gets hit by a car, then it isn't COVID.

If they got hit by a car because they had a fever-induced seizure and fell into a busy roadway and got hit by a car, then it is up to the clinician.

There is much gray area in the human experience, and it is impossible to predict every permutation. That's why we kinda have to trust the person filling out the form.

 

[nonobaddog]

I'm 100% for clarity and standardization in reporting. With data, garbage in = garbage out. Everyone reporting data differently helps no one.

But if these guidelines are being implemented (and, especially, encouraged to be implemented) as COVID-19 present = COVID-19 cause of death, then that's a major problem.

I don't see where it said that.

 

[chipbennett]

I don't see where it said that.

There is a reason it is worded as subjunctive. That if is a big if.

What was quoted doesn't say that. What has been reported in this thread supports that it might be the practice.

 

[Trigger Time]

When one looks at where we are now with this wuhan virus, I don't see the importance of whether or not it was first here in January vs December.

I do. Because we didnt see society shutting down then and it was obviously spreading.
I think this shows we need to open the country back up for business and treat this just like every other flu season. Yes it's more contagious but use precautions.
I'm starting to believe we are being sold a bag of goods and that the shutdowns is doing more damage than the disease would on it's own

 

[T.Lex]

I do. Because we didnt see society shutting down then and it was obviously spreading.
I think this shows we need to open the country back up for business and treat this just like every other flu season. Yes it's more contagious but use precautions.

It is more contagious. It is more fatal. We don't have a vaccine. We don't have a proven treatment regimen for it.

Other than that....

 

[HoughMade]

It is more contagious. It is more fatal. We don't have a vaccine. We don't have a proven treatment regimen for it.

Other than that....

We're not going to solve the Social Security shortfall and homelessness by staying shut down.