Names never have bothered me. Actions do. Call me whatever, just don't be a prick or have an authority complex. I won't break the law. So then We shouldn't have problemS
You're such a liberal.
Names never have bothered me. Actions do. Call me whatever, just don't be a prick or have an authority complex. I won't break the law. So then We shouldn't have problemS
I understand this 100%. I think people are getting too focused on the term and NOT what you are describing. A jerk is going to act like a jerk no matter the jargon used.there are some non-police officers who view themselves as civilians and police officers as non-civilians.
There is no concern with one civilian calling another civilian, "civilian".
I think so. Probably more than once. That would explain my poor attempt at jokes.Didn't we have this discussion before?
What happened? Did they call you chicken ****er?Who do I complain to about being mistreated by former military members because I never served?
Who do I complain to about being mistreated by former military members because I never served?
Commander in Chief Obama ... He has the same problem.
It is simple: "civilian" means "one under civil law" - as distinguished from one under military law.
Our military personnel are non-civilian. Everyone else is civilian, including police officers, firefighters, first responders, and teachers (all of whom I have seen erroneously referred to as "non-civilian").
There is very real danger in ascribing an "other than civilian" designation to those who wield the power of the state, because it implies that such people are somehow above (or outside of) the civilian law. Law enforcement officers enforce civil law. They derive their power, authority, and duties from civil law. In carrying out those duties and exercising that power and authority, they remain subject to civil law.
A mid 1700s dictionary only has the 1st definition.CIVILIAN, n. [from civil.]
1. One who is skilled in the Roman law; a professor or doctor of civil law.2. In a more extended sense, one who is versed in law and government.3. A student of the civil law at the university.
10. Civil state, the whole body of the laity or citizens, not included under the military, maritime, and ecclesiastical states.
The UCMJ grants no authority. It is a separate justice system for military members.
Military members are are still bound by civil and criminal laws. If a service member damages his off post apartment, he could be sued civilly, then given a article 15 by his commander under the UCMJ.
From my reading you did in the above quoted post.I never claimed otherwise.
There is very real danger in ascribing an "other than civilian" designation to those who wield the power of the state, because it implies that such people are somehow above (or outside of) the civilian law.
Mind if I ask where you got that definition and what time frame it was in use? Per the 1828 Noah Webster's dictionary it is defined as this
A mid 1700s dictionary only has the 1st definition.
Now the Webster's definition of civil state is a bit closer to your definition. It is this.
But it includes other than military also. Heck my pastor isn't a civilian per that time frames definition.
civilian (n.) late 14c., "judge or authority on civil law," from Old French civilien "of the civil law," created from Latin civilis "relating to a citizen, relating to public life, befitting a citizen; popular, affable, courteous" (see civil). Sense of "non-military person" is attested by 1819 (earlier in this sense was civilian, attested from c. 1600 as "non-soldier"). The adjective is from 1640s.
From my reading you did in the above quoted post.
No way.Let's all be citizens and live happily ever after
Try here, for example:
Online Etymology Dictionary
My statement that you quoted referred to non-military, such as LEOs.
What it does do is show that the meaning of words do change over time, which is a very important thing to know.It is simple: "civilian" means "one under civil law" - as distinguished from one under military law.
Commander in Chief Obama ... He has the same problem.
Other way around
CommonersSo one under civil law? What do we call those under statutory or common law?
Getting into this late. Not gonna read the whole thread.It's just a word. Any word can be used that way. Saying non-LEO in that manner still stings.