I did not experience vertical stringing, other than a time at Red Brush that my M1A's sight ratcheted during a rapid fire string. There were times that I didn't hold elevation well.I intend to shoot sling also, if I continue with this. That's a new set of variables I haven't uncorked at 1k, yet. (I shot my first match only with bipod, just to see if I could get on paper).
So in your experience, is a vertical string the result of ammo, a fast heating barrel...or do all barrels and ammo simply do this, and the shooter has to learn to read the effect and make compensations as the string progresses?
I did not experience vertical stringing, other than a time at Red Brush that my M1A's sight ratcheted during a rapid fire string. There were times that I didn't hold elevation well.
Of the 20 shots for score, how many would you consider to be well executed shots?
How well can you call your shots?
How many shots broke high?
I'm glad you mentioned shot-calling, because that's something I've wondered about. I got a surprise break on every shot, and except for the first shot, which I was just not mentally ready for, none of those shots broke with the crosshairs any further out than the edge of the 9-ring. The high ones were real puzzlers to me. I know you said you only need to see where the target is, and I basically concur for most shooting. But let's get real, you also said you like to buy points, and at the Riley silhouette matches you're using a Nightforce for 200 yards!
I'm currently using a 4x16 Athlon Mil Dot, not because I like that magnification or measurement system, but simply because in the many tracking tests I've performed on that scope on big white pieces of cardboard, I know that scope "moves" the bullets by the exact amount the turret says they're supposed to (and those also correspond accurately to the measurement system on the reticle grid). But I would like some more magnification. I would like to see more positional detail against the target, when that reticle lifts off. What are other people using at this distance?
Shot calling is more than where the crosshairs were at the time the shot broke. It also includes what direction and at what speed. I have to assume that when you say the edge of the 9 ring you are talking about holding off for wind or are you saying that you have a 9 ring vertical hold?
Read what I said again. That being that you only need to know where the target is. I'll give you a couple of examples. I know/knew of a number of iron sight 1k shooters who had not been able to see the aiming black. They did know that the aiming black was in the center of the large frame above their number board. They adjusted their sights accordingly while holding on the frame, shooting very good scores without the ability to see the target. Years ago, at a 1k match at Atterbury I forgot my sight box, scope and irons. Wayne Faatz loaned me his scope for the match. His rings fit my rail but was so misaligned that there was not enough windage available for me to aim at and hit my target. The solution was to aim at the target to my right and adjust the scope accordingly. Many of those shots were made when that target had been pulled into the pits for scoring, I simply relied on my position and squeezed the trigger while aiming in midair. I had a 198X? Sue Mogle probably remembers this as she got quite a kick out of me forgetting some of my gear.
I use a NF on that rifle at Riley now because that is the best scope I own. It was the best scope that I could afford when I was shooting 1k. I won the 1k State Championship one year using a Tasco 20X Super Sniper. They are not known for their clarity but mine was mechanically sound. I still have that scope and you are welcome to use it if you think a little more magnification might help.
That is a really good observation about irons shooters, because it's true: there, you really have no detailed perception of the lift-off like you do with a scope, and yet competitors manage good scores. I think I will stick with the 16x because thinking back on my shot-calling, there was really nothing that could account for shots being that high, in terms of the reticle being "off" when the shot went. The reticles were mostly well-centered, but the shots floated up there anyhow.
I've though about it some more, and one observation I lost track of since the match was that I really didn't have a repeatable anchor with the rear bag on every shot. I wasn't getting a consistent amount of shoulder behind the gun. I had the bag all the way back to overlapping the end of the stock, in order to get the reticle positioned (if I went down another notch with my bipod, it was too low), and at one point I even tried tossing the bag out because it was hassling me so much. I would be willing to bet that was letting shots ride up. I will be rid of this the next match, because I will be shooting sling and if nothing else, will get that rifle anchored on the shoulder the same every time. (A whippy plastic stock and heavy trigger will have also been addressed by next match, but I don't think they were a big contributor because they were the same on every shot).
A minor point on match administration: I saw some folks have occasional misses that were apparently just overlooked. Is this a case of giving the shooter the benefit of the doubt, and assuming he just had a round that clocked slow and didn't register? I figure this is not a national championship level match, so maybe if a person is hitting otherwise, people were cutting each other slack. I really don't know, but wanted to ask. I don't want to violate community protocol and count somebody off, incorrectly.
And what about cross-fires? There were several of those, and it looked like folks were just shrugging it off and not counting misses. (Guess I really need to get a rule book before going much farther).
Fortunately, the super-nice gentleman who bounced a round off the dirt road 200 feet in front of the firing line had that errant projectile adjudicated according to Hoyle, and the ensuing cloud of dust garnered a miss...
I intend to shoot sling also, if I continue with this. That's a new set of variables I haven't uncorked at 1k, yet.
So in your experience, is a vertical string the result of ammo, a fast heating barrel...or do all barrels and ammo simply do this, and the shooter has to learn to read the effect and make compensations as the string progresses?
I'm glad you mentioned shot-calling, because that's something I've wondered about. I got a surprise break on every shot...
The high ones were real puzzlers to me.
I know you said you only need to see where the target is, and I basically concur for most shooting. But let's get real, you also said you like to buy points, and at the Riley silhouette matches you're using a Nightforce for 200 yards!
I know/knew of a number of iron sight 1k shooters who had not been able to see the aiming black. They did know that the aiming black was in the center of the large frame above their number board. They adjusted their sights accordingly while holding on the frame, shooting very good scores without the ability to see the target.
I've though about it some more, and one observation I lost track of since the match was that I really didn't have a repeatable anchor with the rear bag on every shot. I wasn't getting a consistent amount of shoulder behind the gun. I had the bag all the way back to overlapping the end of the stock, in order to get the reticle positioned (if I went down another notch with my bipod, it was too low), and at one point I even tried tossing the bag out because it was hassling me so much. I would be willing to bet that was letting shots ride up. I will be rid of this the next match, because I will be shooting sling and if nothing else, will get that rifle anchored on the shoulder the same every time. (A whippy plastic stock and heavy trigger will have also been addressed by next match, but I don't think they were a big contributor because they were the same on every shot).
A minor point on match administration: I saw some folks have occasional misses that were apparently just overlooked.
And what about cross-fires? There were several of those, and it looked like folks were just shrugging it off and not counting misses. (Guess I really need to get a rule book before going much farther).
The ability to repeat your position is critical. If you experienced issues with a bipod and a bag and you believe that you can reduce or eliminate them by shooting with a sling.......good luck. Once again, I say this not knowing your experience with sling shooting.
...a sport where realistic practice between matches is impossible.
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. It is really appreciated. I'm shooting factory ammo for now, in a rifle that cost $100 less than a Glock, and at a sport where realistic practice between matches is impossible. I have a list to work on, and anytime I can score points off the clock by reducing a variable or two, it's a help.
Hey guys, this is a great discussion. Should it be moved out into its own thread in the forum?