Carrier Corp. Moving out of Indy, 1,400 Jobs Gone

[Frosty]

But that makes you worth your high dollar wage right?

You are wrong. Period.

How is he wrong? Not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious to hear your point of view.

 

[jd4320t]

How is he wrong? Not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious to hear your point of view.

The wages are fair for the work being done. This thread should be about losing jobs not insulting workers

 

[jd4320t]

As I've said many times on INGO...whenever you start saying someone makes too much money you need to say what you do and how much you make so the people can line up to tell you how you make too much money.

 

[Frosty]

The wages are fair for the work being done. This thread should be about losing jobs not insulting workers

Fair enough, I'm not insulting any workers, and I'm sorry if it's taken that way, but doesn't the market set the wages? Go to any factory in Greencastle and start on the line and its $11 an hour, if one goes union and has to pay $16 an hour but can't raise their prices because they won't be competitive, who loses out? Eventually the employees when something like this happens. I don't fault the employees, I fault the unions. That's my opinion, right or wrong.

 

[Frosty]

As I've said many times on INGO...whenever you start saying someone makes too much money you need to say what you do and how much you make so the people can line up to tell you how you make too much money.

Truck driver, 16.50 an hour. Probably is to much to sit on my butt all day, apparently my boss likes me

 

[hoosierdoc]

The wages are fair for the work being done. This thread should be about losing jobs not insulting workers

When they lose their job due to cost of wages it's fair to comment on the wages

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

As I've said many times on INGO...whenever you start saying someone makes too much money you need to say what you do and how much you make so the people can line up to tell you how you make too much money.

I get the argument that unions (the "system" really) protect people that need to be fired. They are even a detriment to more efficiency and productivity way too often. They are. I've seen and experienced it. But I'm reluctant claim some person makes too much money. Even if you're an engineer or manager, (you doctors and lawyers out there, you're not immune either) there are Mexicans, Indians, and Chinese folks that are willing to do your job for much less money than you're currently enjoying.

My current supervisor is on "foreign assignment" from a plant in Mexico. He's a very smart guy with a chemical engineering degree. I can tell you, my salary is between 2 and 3x what his is. This isn't just about the guy on the line or a skilled trades guy losing a job. It affects people at all levels and pay grades. Someday, it may affect your job.

 

[atvdave]

I don't know that specific place. But I've worked for similar places. I'm one of the guys who designs the line that they work on. I design the HMI that they use to operate the equipment. I design the software that tracks their work and their mistakes.

I'm not denying that they work hard. I'm sure many do. But that doesn't mean their labor is worth $70,000 per year. The guy flipping burgers might work hard too, but it's on him to leverage that hard work in a way that can earn him the big bucks without union strong-arm tactics through government regulation.

And if they are paying these guys $20,000 in OT then something's wrong. They need more workers. They probably can't get them because of the union wanting to protect that OT.

It has been in the past, and will always be in the near future cheaper to pay employees OT vs. hiring & keeping more employees on the payroll. The union wants nothing more than to increase membership. More union members = more union dues.

As I've said many times on INGO...whenever you start saying someone makes too much money you need to say what you do and how much you make so the people can line up to tell you how you make too much money.

Proud union member. Electrical, +$35.00 per/hr.

 

[atvdave]

I get the argument that unions (the "system" really) protect people that need to be fired. They are even a detriment to more efficiency and productivity way too often. They are. I've seen and experienced it. But I'm reluctant claim some person makes too much money. Even if you're an engineer or manager, (you doctors and lawyers out there, you're not immune either) there are Mexicans, Indians, and Chinese folks that are willing to do your job for much less money than you're currently enjoying.

My current supervisor is on "foreign assignment" from a plant in Mexico. He's a very smart guy with a chemical engineering degree. I can tell you, my salary is between 2 and 3x what his is. This isn't just about the guy on the line or a skilled trades guy losing a job. It affects people at all levels and pay grades. Someday, it may affect your job.

Right on... (in red)


I've worked both union & non-union. I've seen dead beats on both sides that needed to be fired and were protected by someone, Union or not.

 

[Rookie]

It has been in the past, and will always be in the near future cheaper to pay employees OT vs. hiring & keeping more employees on the payroll. The union wants nothing more than to increase membership. More union members = more union dues.

I know our Union puts in requests almost weekly for more people and management denies every time.

 

[igotdiesel2]

There is something that no one has said about this plant closing that also hurts us.

I have never worked at Carrier, nor have I ever seen the plant. But, I work in a small sheet metal shop on the east side of town that makes a tiny little part 6" long that when they move we will no longer make. Now this won't "kill" the company I work for but it will be one less job that we run. It isn't the first we have lost because of this and it won't be the last. That is also why I have went from working 64 to 70 hours in 6 days a week to 40 hours in 4 days a week.

This closing will effect a lot more than the 1400 that work at that plant. And I'm not just talking about their families. -Jason

 

[mdemetz]

Made MSN news.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Now for the $50,000 question: How are we gong to maintain our economy and survive with our cost of living when the paradigm has changed such that producers of goods are producing those goods in foreign countries with starvation wages yet still sell their products here at prices that traffic has been willing and able to bear under the old paradigm? What about our structure of taxation, food, energy, and so forth? An economy cannot operate without producing tangible goods of value, and we now have an entire system that inhibits doing so domestically. Can anyone justify expecting any outcome other than a trip down the toilet?

 

[Leadeye]

Now for the $50,000 question: How are we gong to maintain our economy and survive with our cost of living when the paradigm has changed such that producers of goods are producing those goods in foreign countries with starvation wages yet still sell their products here at prices that traffic has been willing and able to bear under the old paradigm? What about our structure of taxation, food, energy, and so forth? An economy cannot operate without producing tangible goods of value, and we now have an entire system that inhibits doing so domestically. Can anyone justify expecting any outcome other than a trip down the toilet?

Spot on. This country now has a very large segment that relies directly or indirectly on tax money. These folks or at least their parents probably worked in manufacturing in the past actually making something that was sold in this country, now they are moving into business that are more dependent on public money. You can't blame them, they go to the jobs that available and the taxes they pay help support the system that feeds them. The math involved in all this however doesn't balance out and it has an ugly ending.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Spot on. This country now has a very large segment that relies directly or indirectly on tax money. These folks or at lest their parents probably worked in manufacturing in the past actually making something that was sold in this country, now they are moving into business that are more dependent on public money. You can't blame them, they go to the jobs that available and the taxes they pay help support the system that feeds them. The math involved in all this however doesn't balance out and it has an ugly ending.

 

[steveh_131]

But that makes you worth your high dollar wage right?

You are wrong. Period.

I don't make a 'high dollar wage'. I busted my butt working my way through college at Purdue, so now I design the production line and the interface - but I make less than the union guy who sits there and mashes buttons.

But let's be clear, I am not complaining. I work hard and I have my own plans for increasing my income, other than using the government to force my employer to pay me more. I won't be the one who forces my company to move offshore because I've got a union twisting their arm.

The wages are fair for the work being done. This thread should be about losing jobs not insulting workers

I didn't insult anybody. If the wages were fair then they wouldn't be moving the plant. It's as simple as that.

When they lose their job due to cost of wages it's fair to comment on the wages

Exactly.

 

[PistolBob]

I don't know that specific place. But I've worked for similar places. I'm one of the guys who designs the line that they work on. I design the HMI that they use to operate the equipment. I design the software that tracks their work and their mistakes.

I'm not denying that they work hard. I'm sure many do. But that doesn't mean their labor is worth $70,000 per year. The guy flipping burgers might work hard too, but it's on him to leverage that hard work in a way that can earn him the big bucks without union strong-arm tactics through government regulation.

And if they are paying these guys $20,000 in OT then something's wrong. They need more workers. They probably can't get them because of the union wanting to protect that OT.

So what you're saying is this dream wage of 70K may just be your estimation. If there are hourly workers at this plant making more than 60K it's very very damned few and I promise you they're working more hours than they spend at home. Your suppositions are opinions and have no relation to the facts according to what you say here. While you are certainly entitled to your opinions, try not to introduce them as facts.

 

[cbhausen]

On top of the lives directly affected by the loss of all these jobs, I am concerned about the ripple effect on the west side, Avon, Plainfield, Brownsburg, etc... This certainly won't help the crime statistics in these areas. And I'd also be worried about acts of violence from disgruntled workers if I worked there (or was in management there, especially...).

 

[steveh_131]

So what you're saying is this dream wage of 70K may just be your estimation. If there are hourly workers at this plant making more than 60K it's very very damned few and I promise you they're working more hours than they spend at home. Your suppositions are opinions and have no relation to the facts according to what you say here. While you are certainly entitled to your opinions, try not to introduce them as facts.

What? I linked a source showing that 3/4 of them are making 70k with overtime. This is not supposition, this is the information that we have available to us.

Provide a better source if you have one.

 

[atvdave]

"Carrier’s workers are separated into a two-tier wage system. A quarter of the workers make about $14 an hour, or about $30,000 a year. The rest make about $26 an hour, or about $55,000, but make well above $70,000 a year with overtime, Jones said."

$14/$26 per/hr is not a very high wage. The $26 is a good wage, but not over the top.

http://www.indystar.com/story/money/2016/02/10/carrier-move-indy-unit-mexico-eliminate-1400-jobs/80181804/