Carried illegally last night.

[lashicoN]

Lastly, you most certainly ARE free to leave. The passport, IIRC, only controls you being allowed to return. As for you not lasting in another country, that would also be your choice... you just don't like the option available to you: You can have the laws we have here, that you have a potential to change in one or another way, or you can go elsewhere where you "wouldn't last a day", by your own admission. I can't speak to Mike's use of your freedom to leave as an argument, but quite simply, the choice is in your hands. It's easy to decry the current laws and much harder to work to change them. Maybe you do both, I don't know. If you don't do the latter, though, I don't see that you have much room to complain about them.

Blessings,
Bill

It's just a stupid, lazy argument to attempt to make. Of course I could leave if I really wanted to. Go through the process and do it. . Do you guys think I'm not aware of that? You could leave too, Bill, or you, Mike. What's the point in saying that to someone? That's like saying, "you're free to eat a pizza if you want." Well no ****, I just did.

If I wanted to leave, I'd be gone. But, what I want isn't offered by any country on Earth, at this time. Some very simple freedoms is all I want. That shouldn't be too much to ask for in America, but these days, I guess freedom and independence are frowned upon. People who want freedom are just told to leave the country, real nice.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I didn't mean we own the lawmakers, I meant we own the laws.

These laws are the entire problem. If our governments would adhere to their Constitutions, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I don't believe in obeying the law for the sake of obeying the law. Laws, in this country, are supposed to be put in place to protect life and liberty, to preserve order, and to make balance by having everyone on the same level. This isn't the system we currently have. Laws are used to control Americans, to rob them, and aren't enforced evenly across the board. Police officers get to carry in IL while I would be thrown in jail for it. That is totally un American, and yet still "legal" according to our current law proposers, makers, and enforcers. We are all supposed to have the same rights.

Our government is not doing its job. They have hired themselves as our babysitters, without the people's consent. Unjust laws, like laws banning the use of firearms as a mean of defending your very life, and the life of your family, are disgusting, un American, and should absolutely not be obeyed. If the law required you to murder people, would you work within that system to change the law or would make the correct choice and simply disobey the law? You can negotiate with these freedom terrorists if you want to. I won't.

I agree with much of what you said, but we the people collectively have demanded many of these laws which the majority on this forum detest. That is how democracies work, and unfortunately we have become a democracy and I am terrified it will get worse.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I didn't mean we own the lawmakers, I meant we own the laws.

These laws are the entire problem. If our governments would adhere to their Constitutions, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I don't believe in obeying the law for the sake of obeying the law. Laws, in this country, are supposed to be put in place to protect life and liberty, to preserve order, and to make balance by having everyone on the same level. This isn't the system we currently have. Laws are used to control Americans, to rob them, and aren't enforced evenly across the board. Police officers get to carry in IL while I would be thrown in jail for it. That is totally un American, and yet still "legal" according to our current law proposers, makers, and enforcers. We are all supposed to have the same rights.

Our government is not doing its job. They have hired themselves as our babysitters, without the people's consent. Unjust laws, like laws banning the use of firearms as a mean of defending your very life, and the life of your family, are disgusting, un American, and should absolutely not be obeyed. If the law required you to murder people, would you work within that system to change the law or would make the correct choice and simply disobey the law? You can negotiate with these freedom terrorists if you want to. I won't.

Presumably, you already are, no matter how much you deny it. Do you have a driver's license? Some claim that the right to travel, however you do so, is inherent, and no license is required to do so, no matter by what form. Do you have a LTCH? Same (actually easier) argument. Have you ever applied for a parade permit? What of the right of assembly?

When we clear away all of the emotional arguments and rhetoric, we're left with the reality that if you want to rally others to your cause, whatever cause that may be, you stand a greater chance of doing so and of being heard in the halls of government when your own record is clean than when you do it from a cell block. I don't question your desire to have things change more toward liberty. Please do me the same courtesy.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

It's just a stupid, lazy argument to attempt to make. Of course I could leave if I really wanted to. Go through the process and do it. . Do you guys think I'm not aware of that? You could leave too, Bill, or you, Mike. What's the point in saying that to someone? That's like saying, "you're free to eat a pizza if you want." Well no ****, I just did.

If I wanted to leave, I'd be gone. But, what I want isn't offered by any country on Earth, at this time. Some very simple freedoms is all I want. That shouldn't be too much to ask for in America, but these days, I guess freedom and independence are frowned upon. People who want freedom are just told to leave the country, real nice.

That's not what you said, though... you said that the reason you "couldn't" go was that you had no passport. The point of saying it to someone is to remind them that this IS the greatest country with the framework that lends itself most toward liberty than any other. The point is that we work, and hard work it is, within that framework to MAKE A DIFFERENCE! As I said earlier, I don't know what you do and don't do for the goal of making things as you would like to see them and for that matter, as our Founders would like to have seen them. Maybe you work your ass off for those goals, but we da** sure don't work toward the goal by making criminals of ourselves. It's not that any of us expect you to leave any more than you expect me to by saying that. What it's doing is sending one da** loud wake-up call to someone who seems to be claiming that there's nothing to do but jump to a rash goal, the one we don't discuss here (and no, you haven't) as opposed to just giving up. Are you giving up? No, it doesn't look like it. I won't go the other direction with that question.


Perhaps it's a flippant reply, but it's not, at least when I use it, intended as one. I can't, as I said, speak for Mike, but I'd be surprised if his reply was substantially different.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bunnykid68]

Here is an example for ya folks. I am one of the members on this forum that does not carry everyday. I do not have an LTCH. If for whatever reason I thought I needed to carry for protection tomorrow from some threat I could do one of several things.
1) call the police and tell them they have to protect me
2) ask permission from my masters to carry at some point in the future
3) start packing a handgun "ILLEGALLY"
4) start packing my coach gun on my back(not very practical)

Guess which one I would choose if I had to make that decision tonight

 

[Kirk Freeman]

5) Go down to the Sheriff's Department and fill out a LTCH application so you can . . . WAIT FOR IT . . . get the license.

 

[Bunnykid68]

5) Go down to the Sheriff's Department and fill out a LTCH application so you can . . . WAIT FOR IT . . . get the license.

That was #2 in my list and what good would that do me tomorrow?

 

[lashicoN]

As I said earlier, I don't know what you do and don't do for the goal of making things as you would like to see them and for that matter, as our Founders would like to have seen them. Maybe you work your ass off for those goals, but we da** sure don't work toward the goal by making criminals of ourselves.

This is where you and I fundamentally differ. I don't care if a group of tyrants brand me as a "criminal" because I broke one of their trillion silly laws. This country was founded by rebellious "criminals". They had no "legal authority" to declare themselves an independent nation from England. Our first Continental President was a "smuggler"!

Do I want to sit in a jail cell, or rot on an English prison ship? Hell no, I don't. I haven't done anything to deserve that either, and I don't believe the OP has either, which is why I feel the need to point out how bad and how wrong our laws are today. They are no longer designed to protect life and liberty. And that is the point of rule by/of law.

 

[lashicoN]

That was #2 in my list and what good would that do me tomorrow?

You might be dead, because you let the government scare you into a defenseless situation, but at least they (the biggest criminals of all) won't think of you as a "criminal".

 

[Expat]

I disagree with seat belt laws and believe they infringe on my rights. I obey them though because I don't want to pay a fine and not wearing it in protest would not be productive. The state would like it as they would make money on me not doing it. It would change nothing. If thousands stopped wearing them in protest, it would do nothing. The only way to win is to vote again the statists when they are up for election.

For a couple of you that don't understand why I bring this up, it is called an analogy.

 

[Bunnykid68]

You might be dead, because you let the government scare you into a defenseless situation, but at least they (the biggest criminals of all) won't think of you as a "criminal".

Never assume I am unarmed or defenseless because I do not carry a handgun which requires a "license from the master"

 

[Bunnykid68]

I disagree with seat belt laws and believe they infringe on my rights. I obey them though because I don't want to pay a fine and not wearing it in protest would not be productive. The state would like it as they would make money on me not doing it. It would change nothing. If thousands stopped wearing them in protest, it would do nothing. The only way to win is to vote again the statists when they are up for election.

For a couple of you that don't understand why I bring this up, it is called an analogy.

I disagree with the seatbelt laws also, I wear one anyway because I feel I got lucky in an accident when I was 16(damn 25 years ago) Any lawyers on here know how to beat a seat belt ticket on this forum?

 

[rbrthenderson]

Never assume I am unarmed or defenseless because I do not carry a handgun.

Exactly

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The Sheriff is hardly your master.

He just a humble public servant. Go get your LTCH that way you never have to see your tax dollars in action being used against you.

 

[Bunnykid68]

The Sheriff is hardly your master.

He just a humble public servant. Go get your LTCH that way you never have to see your tax dollars in action being used against you.

Kirk, thanks for caring.(I am blowing kisses your way right now) I will not get a license(sheriff doesnt give them here). If I ever feel the need to carry a handgun I will simply have to take my chances with everyones tax dollars working against me. Yes, I will be SOL if I ever need a handgun unexpectedly, but I will do my best to educate people and our representatives about their repressive behavior every day of my life. BUT, if something truly would happen that I felt I needed to carry a handgun tomorrow for mine or my families safety I would not care one lick what any law or statute says. The laws of the state will not protect me, they may try to persecute me, but they will never protect me. Thanks for the great advice, but I humbly refuse

Side note...Years ago here in Evansville I went and got(applied for permission) an LTCH, asked one of the office folk at the EPD about a good place to get some training. The lady looked me square in the eye and said and I quote "just point and click"

 

[Expat]

I disagree with the seatbelt laws also, I wear one anyway because I feel I got lucky in an accident when I was 16(damn 25 years ago) Any lawyers on here know how to beat a seat belt ticket on this forum?

And one of the first auto accidents I looked into, many years ago. The car got t-boned, impact on the read driver side door. The lady in the back didn't have a seat belt on. She split her head to the skull, but other than stitches, she came out okay. The door, rocker panel and roof were shoved over to the center of the car. If she had had her seat belt on, I am not sure she would have survived. Don't get me wrong, I am sure being belted saves many lives. I just don't think it is the gubmint's business. And yes I have my own health insurance.

 

[Bunnykid68]

And one of the first auto accidents I looked into, many years ago. The car got t-boned, impact on the read driver side door. The lady in the back didn't have a seat belt on. She split her head to the skull, but other than stitches, she came out okay. The door, rocker panel and roof were shoved over to the center of the car. If she had had her seat belt on, I am not sure she would have survived. Don't get me wrong, I am sure being belted saves many lives. I just don't think it is the gubmint's business. And yes I have my own health insurance.

Would rep you if I could. I got t-boned by a 77 Tbird and walked away with a bloody nose and still cannot believe thats all the injury I got. Almost lost a son before he was born because of a seatbelt too though. Minor fender bender and the belt put a lot of pressure on moms belly, Was scared as hell but all worked out fortunately.

 

[Expat]

Is there an official policy on pregnant women? I can see that being a possible hazard.

 

[KG1]

Side note...Years ago here in Evansville I went and got(applied for permission) an LTCH, asked one of the office folk at the EPD about a good place to get some training. The lady looked me square in the eye and said and I quote "just point and click"

Ah, the old point and click method, who knew. I guess she should have included instructions on how to load it otherwise you would literally be pointing and clicking. Not Good.

 

[MrsGungho]

Is there an official policy on pregnant women? I can see that being a possible hazard.

pregnant women should adjust the lap belt so that is under the belly on the pelvic bone to reduce injury to the baby