Carbon-15 AR help please

[churchmouse]

Input please. A friend of my sons was impulsed into buying an AR pistol at the last 1500. He called me and asked my opinion and I said I have none as no experience in these pieces. He has had it out 3 times and it will just not run. It is in my hands now. I find the action of the BCG to be way to tight. I tore it down, cleaned it and oiled it thoroughly. Only slightly better. It is all polymer. Upper and lower. The clearances in the upper are just way too tight. Is this normal or is it just a poorly fit up piece.
Manf. Is Professional Ordinance Inc.
Carbon-15 pistol.

Is this a straight up turd or can it be worked a bit????

Any and all advice/opinions are welcome.

 

[O'Shark]

I'm sure your son's friend feels sick about his purchase for now. I frequent Arfcom as well as INGO and I have yet to read anything good about polymer uppers or lowers.

How far into the BCG did you go? You mentioned it was tight but in what way? Was the charging handle hard to pull? If that bolt won't rotate smoothly in the carrier, you probably have your culprit. There are just so many variables to consider.

 

[Shoots4Fun]

My friend bought a polymer lower 2 1500's ago and put a regular 223 upper on it from Indy Trading Post. Can't remember the manufacturer of the upper but thinking it was Delton. The lower was ATI.

The upper and lower mated perfected and it has shot very, very reliably.

I've never seen the polymer upper on anything besides a 22 AR.

Sorry about your son's friend's purchase. I'd recommend calling the manufacturer and seeing if they'll back the product. If not, I'd put a standard upper on the polymer lower.

My ...

 

[223 Gunner]

Check the extractor spring, I had one of these pistols, sent it back to Bushmaster (they paid shipping both ways), they replaced the extractor spring and polished the feed ramps. I did send the OP a very detailed PM about this.
For the record, I have, over the years had to call Bushmaster, and I have always experienced outstanding customer service, and on small parts they will usually put them in the mail to you free of charge.
Used to be a great company before they were purchased by the Freedom Group, lets hope they still are.

 

[palerider0485]

ive had several ar pistols, they are are hard to get to work in my experience, the carbon 15s jam worse. other ar's with the alum frame u can change the buffer wieght and spring, dont put a stock on them tho, that would make a short barrel rifle, illgal. u could try to get ahold of bushmaster, and mail it to them, they could go through it, they bought out profession ordianance i belieave and will work on them, dont quote me on that tho. they are very finicly keltec makes a 223 pistol that uses a piston and not a gas tube, i bought one and was skepticle about it, but its shoots with no flaws, so if u want a 223 pistol that takes ar mags, get a keltec

 

[churchmouse]

I'm sure your son's friend feels sick about his purchase for now. I frequent Arfcom as well as INGO and I have yet to read anything good about polymer uppers or lowers.

How far into the BCG did you go? You mentioned it was tight but in what way? Was the charging handle hard to pull? If that bolt won't rotate smoothly in the carrier, you probably have your culprit. There are just so many variables to consider.

It is tight around the BCG. It drags on the sides all the way through the stroke.
I tried it with and with out the charging handle and it is the side clearance or lack of between the BCG and the upper housing. It is just too tight.
I ran the gun and it sucks with .223 bulk. 5.56 LAP runs it better and reloads (hot) run it the best but it still sucks. It will run 2 or 3 rds. and not strip a round from the mag. Bolt is tight and does not stroke full cycle.
Seems to be a turd.

 

[Thumper]

Try a different BCG and see if that helps.

 

[silentvoice71]

Get some fine lapping compound and smear the bolt in it, then rack the bolt about 20 times until it starts to loosen up. Thats what i would do

 

[churchmouse]

Get some fine lapping compound and smear the bolt in it, then rack the bolt about 20 times until it starts to loosen up. Thats what i would do

I was thinking that way earlier. The carbon in that area is rough. It would be like lapping in the valves on an old lawn mower motor. Done more than a few of those. This might work.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I have a couple of questions. 1. Did you clean and lube it? 2. Are the gas key screws tight and staked? Short stroking can be caused by gas escaping from underneath the gas key if the screws are not tight. I had that issue with my Bushmaster. It would cycle with my reloads, but not with factory ammo. Just a couple of things to look at.

 

[palerider0485]

you know, im a ar lover, and to be honest, they werent made to have a barrel that short, fire lap the action, make sure the key on top of the bolt is tight, clean and lube, and u still have a very finikey gun,... i really hope u do figure it out, because i have the same problum with the ones i have, but really i think its a bad design....

 

[churchmouse]

I have a couple of questions. 1. Did you clean and lube it? 2. Are the gas key screws tight and staked? Short stroking can be caused by gas escaping from underneath the gas key if the screws are not tight. I had that issue with my Bushmaster. It would cycle with my reloads, but not with factory ammo. Just a couple of things to look at.

Yup. Did all that. It has a hard chrome BCG and the gas key is stacked nicely. I think it it the best part of the entire gun. BCG is still tight in its slide. I am beginning to believe all they say about these guns is true.
The young man bought it to carry in his vehicle. Short enough to egress easily and it is .223 and hits much harder than a pistol round, when it works. Problem is, It doesn't work.

 

[1911ly]

Yup. Did all that. It has a hard chrome BCG and the gas key is stacked nicely. I think it it the best part of the entire gun. BCG is still tight in its slide. I am beginning to believe all they say about these guns is true.
The young man bought it to carry in his vehicle. Short enough to egress easily and it is .223 and hits much harder than a pistol round, when it works. Problem is, It doesn't work.

IMHO it's not a pistol I would use as a self defense weapon. Way over kill. The round would go threw several people before stopping. Plus with all the issues he is having I wouldn't trust it. It is a target shooting gun at best.

I feel bad for the guy! as said in earlier post "send it back to manufacturer for repair" Then I would use it for target if I were him. There are a lot more practical guns for vehicle defense.

 

[Mosinguy]

Yup. Did all that. It has a hard chrome BCG and the gas key is stacked nicely. I think it it the best part of the entire gun. BCG is still tight in its slide. I am beginning to believe all they say about these guns is true.
The young man bought it to carry in his vehicle. Short enough to egress easily and it is .223 and hits much harder than a pistol round, when it works. Problem is, It doesn't work.

With .223 ballistics and the barrel length of said pistol, a .223 will zip through anyone if he used it for self defense. It wouldn't give the bullet the necessary velocity to tumble.

 

[churchmouse]

All true about the ballistics.
I told him to pass on it but impulse gun buy's can be a powerful force. Never done it myself.......

 

[223 Gunner]

All true about the ballistics.
I told him to pass on it but impulse gun buy's can be a powerful force. Never done it myself.......

We've all done it, it's a learning experience for him for sure. It's those hard lessons that stick with us. I try to never be in a hurry to buy these days. But I'm older and slower.

 

[Colt556]

I've had 2 of these and they both need a bit of tweaking. The last one needed a new recoil spring and would only work with GI mags and not the mags it came with. IT was a blast, literally, to shoot. sorry for your issues with it.

 

[palerider0485]

get a kel tec plr 16 if u want a good .223 pistol...

 

[indykid]

I am going to make believe I actually read the first post.

The firearm in question is a Professional Ordnance Carbon 15, not a Bushmaster.

The original Pro- Ord Carbon 15 used proprietary parts. The upper and lower cross pins and locking holes will not line up with a standard AR-15 upper or lower.

The original Pro-Ord Carbon 15 has a proprietary bolt head which will not work in a standard AR-15 nor will a standard AR-15 bolt work in the Carbon 15.

At least the Carbon 15 I have has a chromed carrier which is smooth as silk, and the instructions for maintaining the firearm state never to oil the receiver as the carbon material used is self-lubricating. Don't ask me to explain how, I can't but that is what the manual says and after several thousand rounds of not lubricating the carrier is still slides in and out very nicely.

The problem I have is on mine the proprietary bolt broke, and Bushmaster does not have any replacements left after buying out Professional Ordnance, but for around $250 if I remember correctly they will replace the barrel with one that uses a standard AR-15 bolt.

Churchmouses, I see you are in the Speedway area. If you want, I would be happy to get together with you and look your Carbon 15 over. I will bring mine along and if my carrier will work better in your pistol, it is yours.

PM me if interested.

 

[churchmouse]

I am going to make believe I actually read the first post.

The firearm in question is a Professional Ordnance Carbon 15, not a Bushmaster.

The original Pro- Ord Carbon 15 used proprietary parts. The upper and lower cross pins and locking holes will not line up with a standard AR-15 upper or lower.

The original Pro-Ord Carbon 15 has a proprietary bolt head which will not work in a standard AR-15 nor will a standard AR-15 bolt work in the Carbon 15.

At least the Carbon 15 I have has a chromed carrier which is smooth as silk, and the instructions for maintaining the firearm state never to oil the receiver as the carbon material used is self-lubricating. Don't ask me to explain how, I can't but that is what the manual says and after several thousand rounds of not lubricating the carrier is still slides in and out very nicely.

The problem I have is on mine the proprietary bolt broke, and Bushmaster does not have any replacements left after buying out Professional Ordnance, but for around $250 if I remember correctly they will replace the barrel with one that uses a standard AR-15 bolt.

Churchmouses, I see you are in the Speedway area. If you want, I would be happy to get together with you and look your Carbon 15 over. I will bring mine along and if my carrier will work better in your pistol, it is yours.

PM me if interested.

+1 to you sir.

This is why I live ingo