Bunkerville NV escalating.

[Birds Away]

And suddenly all those hypothetical "what will the NDAA mean for honest Americans" discussions don't feel so far out any longer.

» Harry Reid Calls Cliven Bundy Supporters ?Domestic Terrorists? Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Harry's just mad they are cutting into his revenue stream. After all, he is the Senate Majority Leader, how dare they interrupt his selling favors to the highest bidder.

 

[cobber]

Harry's just mad they are cutting into his revenue stream. After all, he is the Senate Majority Leader, how dare they interrupt his selling favors to the highest bidder.

In the old Vietnam war days, protesters used to do this all the time, and the Left called them heroes. I guess with the recent CNN-SPLC warning about right-wing violence, Harry's just trying to smear these folks.

He's a disgrace to America, and the people of Nevada should be ashamed inflicting him on us again and again.

 

[Manatee]

It is the absence thereof. A crucial and frequently overlooked fact is that the Constitution was designed not as a list of limits on the federal government but rather a list of delegated functions and points of authority with the Bill of Rights added to emphasize some things which are out of bounds for the federal government (and addresses the fact that the BoR is not a comprehensive list). In short, if the Constitution does not grant the federal government authority to do something, it does not have authority to so it. I have yet to see where the federal government is delegated authority to directly manage and/or control major portions of interior territory. This is a far cry from the authority to maintain forts, magazines, harbors, and other needful buildings.

Not my reading by any means. But not something I'm willing to spend the time debating. There is a certain amount of "doublespeak" in your logic.

 

[firehawk1]

Not my reading by any means. But not something I'm willing to spend the time debating. There is a certain amount of "doublespeak" in your logic.

I'm with you on this one, My understanding has always been the Constitution was/is to set limits on the Federal Government, and anything not specifically stated as a function of the Federal Government was the left to the states. Pretty smart those Founding Fathers, a way to avoid exactly what we are experiencing now, consolidation of total power/authority in Washington.

 

[Trooper]

Makes me wonder how the LEOs with the BLM felt. My guess is that there were not happy about being in the middle of this mess.

 

[Leadeye]

Do you really think this could be done w/out corruption?

No chance, all of the west would be sold to the chinese so fast Americans would never get in on it.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Not my reading by any means. But not something I'm willing to spend the time debating. There is a certain amount of "doublespeak" in your logic.

I'm with you on this one, My understanding has always been the Constitution was/is to set limits on the Federal Government, and anything not specifically stated as a function of the Federal Government was the left to the states. Pretty smart those Founding Fathers, a way to avoid exactly what we are experiencing now, consolidation of total power/authority in Washington.

WTF? The Constitution is an instrument of positive grants of authority, and conversely, if the Constitution does NOT grant the authority to the federal government it damned well doesn't have the authority, as opposed to setting limits which would leave the federal government able to do anything not specifically prohibited by the Constitution.

 

[Manatee]

And what authority does Congress have w/r/t Federal authority? You're missing something I'm afraid.

Again, I'm not going to debate this with you.

 

[jbombelli]

WTF? The Constitution is an instrument of positive grants of authority, and conversely, if the Constitution does NOT grant the authority to the federal government it damned well doesn't have the authority, as opposed to setting limits which would leave the federal government able to do anything not specifically prohibited by the Constitution.

Take it up with the Supreme Court, and their limitless interpretation of the Interstate Commerce Clause, and all of the other things they've decided are "constitutional" despite not being specifically enumerated.

 

[Henry]

HARRY REID DOUBLES DOWN ON BUNDY RANCH: 'IF THEY'RE PATRIOTS, WE'RE IN BIG TROUBLE'

Yes Reid...you are indeed.

 

[jamil]

And what authority does Congress have w/r/t Federal authority? You're missing something I'm afraid.

Again, I'm not going to debate this with you.

Have you guys even read the 10th Amendment? Dave's right.

If it don't say it, and it don't prohibit it, it ain't the USG's, it's the state's or the people's. Period.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Take it up with the Supreme Court, and their limitless interpretation of the Interstate Commerce Clause, and all of the other things they've decided are "constitutional" despite not being specifically enumerated.

You missed my point, particularly in that the second post condemned what I said and then reiterated it.

 

[Trooper]

Have you guys even read the 10th Amendment? Dave's right.

If it don't say it, and it don't prohibit it, it ain't the USG's, it's the state's or the people's. Period.

I am thinking that once the Baby Boomers retire, much of the desire for power might wane. I am not as sure that the Gen-Xers and Millennials are as eager for power as the Boomers were. Plus there is just going to be fewer of them compared to the Boomers. In 10 years over half of the country is into retirement. Not sure there will be enough people to keep the federal government going. Power will revert to the states and even the states will have to scale back. We will just not have the manpower to have a large government. Nor will the "kids" have the interest.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I am thinking that once the Baby Boomers retire, much of the desire for power might wane. I am not as sure that the Gen-Xers and Millennials are as eager for power as the Boomers were. Plus there is just going to be fewer of them compared to the Boomers. In 10 years over half of the country is into retirement. Not sure there will be enough people to keep the federal government going. Power will revert to the states and even the states will have to scale back. We will just not have the manpower to have a large government. Nor will the "kids" have the interest.

There may be some adjustment, but world history has never witnessed the absence of the desire to control others, at least aside from select tribal cultures, such as Native American tribes, and even these would cheerfully run over another tribe given the opportunity.

 

[jamil]

I am thinking that once the Baby Boomers retire, much of the desire for power might wane. I am not as sure that the Gen-Xers and Millennials are as eager for power as the Boomers were. Plus there is just going to be fewer of them compared to the Boomers. In 10 years over half of the country is into retirement. Not sure there will be enough people to keep the federal government going. Power will revert to the states and even the states will have to scale back. We will just not have the manpower to have a large government. Nor will the "kids" have the interest.

Huh? The current US population is somewhere north of 310 million. There are currently ~2.65 million civilian US government employees. Boomers retiring and dieing off won't pull enough manpower from the workforce to do what you're saying. If the US scales back the number of government workers it will be because it can't afford them, not because there won't be enough people to take a government job.

You know, sometimes I think you say this stuff just to **** with everyone.

 

[Trooper]

Huh? The current US population is somewhere north of 310 million. There are currently ~2.65 million civilian US government employees. Boomers retiring and dieing off won't pull enough manpower from the workforce to do what you're saying. If the US scales back the number of government workers it will be because it can't afford them, not because there won't be enough people to take a government job.

You know, sometimes I think you say this stuff just to **** with everyone.

There are about 2.65 million civil servants. But under Clinton we started adding contractors (sort of a backhanded way to have patronage). Under Bush and now Obama the contractors now make up nearly 8.5 million federal workers. If you do not understand how contracting works (think about how industry adds workers these days) then you cannot get a handle on how big the federal workforce is (over 10 million).

 

[IndyDave1776]

There are about 2.65 million civil servants. But under Clinton we started adding contractors (sort of a backhanded way to have patronage). Under Bush and now Obama the contractors now make up nearly 8.5 million federal workers. If you do not understand how contracting works (think about how industry adds workers these days) then you cannot get a handle on how big the federal workforce is (over 10 million).

Now I understand what happened. I saw the 2.65M figure and recalled a number closer to 10M from when I was in school. Apparently, there has been a shift from direct employees to contractors with little actual shift in numbers. (No, I have not researched this, just going on memory).

 

[Trooper]

Now I understand what happened. I saw the 2.65M figure and recalled a number closer to 10M from when I was in school. Apparently, there has been a shift from direct employees to contractors with little actual shift in numbers. (No, I have not researched this, just going on memory).

I have retired from federal service. (and the military) But now am a contractor. I know how big government is. And how it has been sucking the best out of the labor market for over a decade. Once the economy returns, it is going to be hard to sustain. We just do not have enough kids in the generations following the Boomers to staff all the positions. We may not have enough workers to keep industry going. We might do ok if we allow immigration from Europe and Asia of their college educated. But we will suck most of the brightest and best from the rest of the world just to keep things up present levels. I really doubt that is going to happen.

I just do not think anyone here at INGO is thinking that far a head.

 

[jdmack79]

I have retired from federal service. (and the military) But now am a contractor. I know how big government is. And how it has been sucking the best out of the labor market for over a decade. Once the economy returns, it is going to be hard to sustain. We just do not have enough kids in the generations following the Boomers to staff all the positions. We may not have enough workers to keep industry going. We might do ok if we allow immigration from Europe and Asia of their college educated. But we will suck most of the brightest and best from the rest of the world just to keep things up present levels. I really doubt that is going to happen.

I just do not think anyone here at INGO is thinking that far a head.

So you are a Federal sponge that is sucking the money from productive private taxpayers and are somehow proud of that?

 

[hornadylnl]

I have retired from federal service. (and the military) But now am a contractor. I know how big government is. And how it has been sucking the best out of the labor market for over a decade. Once the economy returns, it is going to be hard to sustain. We just do not have enough kids in the generations following the Boomers to staff all the positions. We may not have enough workers to keep industry going. We might do ok if we allow immigration from Europe and Asia of their college educated. But we will suck most of the brightest and best from the rest of the world just to keep things up present levels. I really doubt that is going to happen.

I just do not think anyone here at INGO is thinking that far a head.

If this is true, we better hope for an apocalyptic event right now.