Boy Scouts train to fight terrorists

[jeremy]

SE I am not nocking the Explores. I am nocking the training this group is doing. Why are they training to defeat/kill an Iraqi Veteran...

 

[techres]

When I was a young scout, my priest used to refer to us as "the paramilitaries training in our church basement". I always thought he was funny on that. Now that I am an adult, I can kinda see where he was coming from.

At the same time, even with tin foil on, this is a program that is not available to just anyone IIRC. It is for eagle scouts. Those are the same kids who get breaks on their car insurance because they are proven to be more responsible and balanced than the run of the mill teens.

So, given what I experienced about boyscouts, I would say that these are going to be smart, determined, kids who have their heads on right and have proven it through hard labor and dedication. I would expect that the character forming that they have been through for years and years before this training will help steer them far from the "Hitler Youth" mindset.

Additionally, if this is training kids towards border patrol jobs and can help solidify the border, then GREAT!

I did not see the things listed that would scare me most: intel gathering (especially on family members), permission to physically abuse fellow classmates, and long term communal living that would break family bonds and loyalty. I also missed the political indoctrination that is vital for true warping of youth. That is where I would be most concerned.

And there are already camps for doing those things in place. And they don't pull from the cream of the crop, they will take anyone...

As for the sexual abuse stuff, the press cannot report on boy scouts or catholic priests without those comments. They simply cannot help themselves.

So does this concern me? Only if it were changed and misused. Does it concern me today? Not really.

 

[SavageEagle]

SE I am not nocking the Explores. I am nocking the training this group is doing. Why are they training to defeat/kill an Iraqi Veteran...

Other than those videos at the beginning of the thread, I don't see any credibal info on that claim. I didn't find anything but blogs with this info either.

I'm not saying you don't have a credible source, I'd just like to read one if you have one. Then I'll be convinced. I went to Philmont, NM Scout Ranch in 97 and on our first night at base camp we met a local Explorer Post who was training with the Border Patrol. They said it was like military boot camp but they got to go on patrols and things with them. I was jealous because they got to fire M16's!

Some of the Explorer Posts that I've met train with SWAT. It's just a matter of what their Post's foundation is. I'm not sure if the Explorer Posts could team up with the military, but I wouldn't see why not. I'd have to look that up later if I remember.

 

[RelicHound]

Boy Scouts Train to Become Homeland Gestapo 1 of 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgSb8HvUbAk


Boy Scouts Train to Become Homeland Gestapo 2 of 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz9waHOgcdM

wow that dude is intense! he's gonna end up giving himself a heart attack.

 

[jeremy]

I'm not sure if the Explorer Posts could team up with the military, but I wouldn't see why not. I'd have to look that up later if I remember.

Generally this is what schools JROTC Programs are for.

 

[jeremy]

The training scenario quoted in the article.
Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.

“United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!” screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued.


Why would someone training in a "Border Patrol" role have a scenario to capture/suppress a "disgruntled Iraqi War Veteran"... Why would they not train against drug runners, Mexican Mafia, or Coyotes...

 

[SavageEagle]

Generally this is what schools JROTC Programs are for.

True, but I would think Explorer Posts like this would be the equivelent as most schools don't have JROTC. I wish mine had.

The training scenario quoted in the article.
Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.

“United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!” screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued.


Why would someone training in a "Border Patrol" role have a scenario to capture/suppress a "disgruntled Iraqi War Veteran"... Why would they not train against drug runners, Mexican Mafia, or Coyotes...

Good points. That is a bit messed up, but I think it was just media focusing on that aspect. I'm sure they have to train for all scenarios and this was probably just one of those. Don't look for the Boy Scouts to team up with obamatard anytime soon.

 

[Smitty506th]

Do they get arm bands?

 

[rambone]

Maybe they should train them to fight Commies.

 

[Ashkelon]

Looks like the old Hitler Youth videos to me. Scary. One more step towards our police state

 

[Willard]

Why would someone training in a "Border Patrol" role have a scenario to capture/suppress a "disgruntled Iraqi War Veteran"... Why would they not train against drug runners, Mexican Mafia, or Coyotes...

Because (according to Napolitano) the returning vets "are targets of right-wing extremist groups that are trying to recruit those to commit violent acts within the country"

 

[CarmelHP]

In 1994, I spent 3 days at Sycamore Valley Gun Club in Bloomington at the National Law Enforcement Explorers conference helping run the shooting competition. The Treasury Dept had provided .38 revolvers and ammunition. We put hundreds of kids through the competition, the ones from places like New Jersey and New York were dangerously bad with firearms. The ones from Texas (I think the Bexar Co Sheriff Explorers won the competition) were surprisingly good with firearms.

The scouts were meant to be paramilitary, but that just means that they were organized according to military discipline. The Hitler Youth and Soviet Young Pioneers gave their scout groups political dimensions. I wouldn't get too worked up about this, people can see something nefarious in just about anything.

 

[dburkhead]

The Boy Scouts originated as a military auxiliary--training young men in skills that could be needed in war.

It's no coincidence that the Hitler Youth and Young Pioneers have a lot of points of similarity with the Scouts, but that is because both of them borrowed heavily from Baden Powell's organization in their own founding (although it wouldn't surprise me if the Russians claimed "it was invented here first" ). That is no fault of the Scouts nor any reason in and of itself to be wary of the Scouts.

As for the particular "program" described in the article, I have to wonder whether that is nothing more than the biases of the particular leadership at that particular organization. Blaming the Scouts for that is, well, like blaming gun owners every time someone commits a crime using a gun, or blaming the military as an organization every time some military member commits s crime (in an organization that large you're going to have some "bad apples" anyway).

Perspective please.

 

[SavageEagle]

The Boy Scouts originated as a military auxiliary--training young men in skills that could be needed in war.

It's no coincidence that the Hitler Youth and Young Pioneers have a lot of points of similarity with the Scouts, but that is because both of them borrowed heavily from Baden Powell's organization in their own founding (although it wouldn't surprise me if the Russians claimed "it was invented here first" ). That is no fault of the Scouts nor any reason in and of itself to be wary of the Scouts.

As for the particular "program" described in the article, I have to wonder whether that is nothing more than the biases of the particular leadership at that particular organization. Blaming the Scouts for that is, well, like blaming gun owners every time someone commits a crime using a gun, or blaming the military as an organization every time some military member commits s crime (in an organization that large you're going to have some "bad apples" anyway).

Perspective please.

While I agree with most of your post, I do disagree on a couple things.

First, the Scouts have no connection to the Military or any form thereof. At least here in America that is. It was never meant as a training tool for youth to become part of the military. This is a common misconception and is taught to the Scouts after crossing over from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts.

Second, the Explorer Scout Posts, while still connected with the BSA, is a seperate entity and is centered around training youth for their paticular profession they have chosen to follow. Training for the Border Patrol, as I have found out, involves the training as described in the article, but is not the main focus of the group. The media has just focused on this one issue and is taking it out of context.

It's called fear mongering.

So on this I agree with you, but the first part is a serious misconception and has nothing to do with the Military. In Britian, yes, here, no.

 

[dburkhead]

While I agree with most of your post, I do disagree on a couple things.

First, the Scouts have no connection to the Military or any form thereof. At least here in America that is. It was never meant as a training tool for youth to become part of the military. This is a common misconception and is taught to the Scouts after crossing over from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts.

Second, the Explorer Scout Posts, while still connected with the BSA, is a seperate entity and is centered around training youth for their paticular profession they have chosen to follow. Training for the Border Patrol, as I have found out, involves the training as described in the article, but is not the main focus of the group. The media has just focused on this one issue and is taking it out of context.

It's called fear mongering.

So on this I agree with you, but the first part is a serious misconception and has nothing to do with the Military. In Britian, yes, here, no.

I didn't say that the organization the Boy Scouts of America, was connected to the military, but that the scouts originated as a military auxiliary, specifically in training young men in skills for war.

Exploring (wrt Scouting) is separate from the Boy Scouts program but in its origin (it has since mutated into a "careers" field) was even more strongly emphasizing military pre-training than the Boy Scouts themselves. Baden Powell specifically said that about the ancestor program (Sea Scouts) was toward fulfilling the need of young men to prepare themselves to serve on their countries ships. This was all around 1910 when Great Britain was the supreme naval power in the world.

While, from about 1959, the Explorer program was broadened to emphasis of "careen exploration" in it's origins it was military preparation.

It's been about 30 years since I was involved, but a quick check shows that the Scout Oath and Scout Law have not changed:

Oath:
On my honor
I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
To obey the Scout Law
To help other people at all times.
To keep myself physically strong,
Mentally awake,
And Morally Straight.

Law:
A Scout is:
Trustworthy
Loyal
Helpful
Friendly
Courteous
Kind
Obedient
Cheerful
Thrifty
Brave
Clean
and Reverent.

So long as those remain the core values of Scouting, I don't think we have to worry to much about it becoming some kind of "Hitler Youth."

 

[SavageEagle]

Never get tired of hearing those two.

Thanks for the clarification!



BTW, anyone here members of OA?

 

[Willard]

Look at what the "core values" of the POTUS and our military are, it doesn't appear that their worried about their duties.

 

[dburkhead]

Look at what the "core values" of the POTUS and our military are, it doesn't appear that their worried about their duties.

I was not aware that the POTUS had any specified "core values." Perhaps you could point me to that.

As for the military, you might want to be more specific. While there are certainly "bad eggs" in the military (show me a group of close to two million people--active and reserve--anywhere that doesn't have some "bad eggs"), my own experience is that the military does a pretty good job of holding to it's "core values" (said to me by my TI on the day I reported for Basic: "I don't care what you think you joined the Air Force for, from this moment on, you are here for three reasons--Duty, Honor, Country.")

 

[agentl074]

I was not aware that the POTUS had any specified "core values." Perhaps you could point me to that.

As for the military, you might want to be more specific. While there are certainly "bad eggs" in the military (show me a group of close to two million people--active and reserve--anywhere that doesn't have some "bad eggs"), my own experience is that the military does a pretty good job of holding to it's "core values" (said to me by my TI on the day I reported for Basic: "I don't care what you think you joined the Air Force for, from this moment on, you are here for three reasons--Duty, Honor, Country.")

Integrity fist, Service before self, Excellence in all we do
"Defensor Fortis" Defenders of the Air Force!

 

[SavageEagle]

Seriously guys, anyone with doubts about the Boy Scouts or any affiliated Groups let me know and here in a couple weeks I'll take you to Old Ben Scout Reservation. Bring your .22 rifles with you along with any Bows you may own. Also if you have a boat that you need to get some kind of grime off the bottom of bring it too.

I'll SHOW you that you have nothing to worry about from the Boy Scouts.



If we're lucky we can get down there the day they do the OA selection ceremonies. Those are a sight to see if you've never seen one.