Bloomington Police purchase of armored truck sparks debate

[Denny347]

Who does anyone think will show up at IU with an active shooter? A college campus that large should be able to respond quickly and reasonably to such a threat. Since IUPD does not have their own SWAT team, or even patrol rifles as far as I know, BPD is the responding agency. I find it hilarious that there is so much fervor over a Ford F550 with steel plating on it. No offensive weaponry, no water canons, nothing. If you can justify the existence of a SWAT Team, then I find it difficult to refuse them a safe transport vehicle. Because when the SHTF, it is the SWAT Team (and any other police officers) that's going in. It is a body bunker on wheels. We don't think twice of a team using a body bunker. The truck gets the team to the scene safely and the body bunker gets them from the truck to the suspect. Armor is armor.

 

[bgcatty]

And when those protesters are caught in a dangerous situation they will be squealing for the police to come and save their butts. Hopefully for consistency’s sake, when SWAT shows up in this new equipment the protesters will say: Oh no you can’t use that thing to save us, go away, we are afraid of the military like presence and save the police a lot of time and effort trying to save such idiots.

 

[jamil]

Who does anyone think will show up at IU with an active shooter? A college campus that large should be able to respond quickly and reasonably to such a threat. Since IUPD does not have their own SWAT team, or even patrol rifles as far as I know, BPD is the responding agency. I find it hilarious that there is so much fervor over a Ford F550 with steel plating on it. No offensive weaponry, no water canons, nothing. If you can justify the existence of a SWAT Team, then I find it difficult to refuse them a safe transport vehicle. Because when the SHTF, it is the SWAT Team (and any other police officers) that's going in. It is a body bunker on wheels. We don't think twice of a team using a body bunker. The truck gets the team to the scene safely and the body bunker gets them from the truck to the suspect. Armor is armor.

I'm not sure people are opposing this so much because they think it's an offensive vehicle. It's the cost and justification.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I'm not sure people are opposing this so much because they think it's an offensive vehicle. It's the cost and justification.

No, they are opposing it because they think it is offensive. Hell, just read some of the comments on here.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Risk is a function of probability and severity of outcome.

Show me the probability in Bloomington. Let .gov have the burden of proof to justify this toy which was purchased because Timmy down the block had one.

Remember the neighboring Morgan County Sheriff's Department attempted to justify their toy based on returning veterans from Southwest Asia. What probability is there of Bloomington needing an armored truck?

 

[ghitch75]

Risk is a function of probability and severity of outcome.

Show me the probability in Bloomington. Let .gov have the burden of proof to justify this toy which was purchased because Timmy down the block had one.

Remember the neighboring Morgan County Sheriff's Department attempted to justify their toy based on returning veterans from Southwest Asia. What probability is there of Bloomington needing an armored truck?

go up on pigeon hill and stay the night.....

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Risk is a function of probability and severity of outcome.

Show me the probability in Bloomington. Let .gov have the burden of proof to justify this toy which was purchased because Timmy down the block had one.

Remember the neighboring Morgan County Sheriff's Department attempted to justify their toy based on returning veterans from Southwest Asia. What probability is there of Bloomington needing an armored truck?

I was working for BPD when a guy tried to blow up his apartment and then killed his ex-girlfriend. When we found him and contained him in the woods he shot at us. We had to have IPD SWAT drive their Peacekeeper down so we could get closer to the guy. But I'm sure that is the only time BPD officers have been shot at and have no need for an armored vehicle.

 

[Woobie]

Who does anyone think will show up at IU with an active shooter? A college campus that large should be able to respond quickly and reasonably to such a threat. Since IUPD does not have their own SWAT team, or even patrol rifles as far as I know, BPD is the responding agency. I find it hilarious that there is so much fervor over a Ford F550 with steel plating on it. No offensive weaponry, no water canons, nothing. If you can justify the existence of a SWAT Team, then I find it difficult to refuse them a safe transport vehicle. Because when the SHTF, it is the SWAT Team (and any other police officers) that's going in. It is a body bunker on wheels. We don't think twice of a team using a body bunker. The truck gets the team to the scene safely and the body bunker gets them from the truck to the suspect. Armor is armor.

I don't care if it's a transformer and carries tactical nukes. Is the cost justified based on the violence in Bloomington and Monroe county?

 

[Denny347]

I'm not sure people are opposing this so much because they think it's an offensive vehicle. It's the cost and justification.

Sadly, the Bearcat is about as cheap an armored truck you are going to find. Justification? They can justify the team's existence but have trouble justifying a vehicle to transport and use as a mobile hard point? That seems illogical to me. It is certainly NOT a toy unlike some other SWAT equipment can be.

 

[Denny347]

I don't care if it's a transformer and carries tactical nukes. Is the cost justified based on the violence in Bloomington and Monroe county?

What WOULD be an appropriate cost vs. risk for you?

 

[Woobie]

I was working for BPD when a guy tried to blow up his apartment and then killed his ex-girlfriend. When we found him and contained him in the woods he shot at us. We had to have IPD SWAT drive their Peacekeeper down so we could get closer to the guy. But I'm sure that is the only time BPD officers have been shot at and have no need for an armored vehicle.

That's a great use for one. If we can show similar events happening on average a couple of times a year or so, I'd be a lot more open to such an expense.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

That's a great use for one. If we can show similar events happening on average a couple of times a year or so, I'd be a lot more open to such an expense.

I don't live in Bloomington any longer so I don't have a say in how they spend their money.

 

[Woobie]

What WOULD be an appropriate cost vs. risk for you?

I covered it a few pages back a little more clearly. But basically something like an average of two events per year which caused grave danger for officers, and which danger was greatly reduced by the presence of a mobile hard point. Taking it on SWAT runs because it's sitting there doesn't count.

 

[Woobie]

I don't live in Bloomington any longer so I don't have a say in how they spend their money.

You paid State and Federal taxes. I highly doubt Bloomington is self sufficient. Besides, you have to fight the battle where it is. If call one government on the carpet for blowing money, then it gives other governments pause. So if they truly need Bearcats, or new office furniture, they'll be a lot more careful about laying out their justification. Making government justify their purchases doesn't hurt the country, state or county.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

You paid State and Federal taxes. I highly doubt Bloomington is self sufficient. Besides, you have to fight the battle where it is. If call one government on the carpet for blowing money, then it gives other governments pause. So if they truly need Bearcats, or new office furniture, they'll be a lot more careful about laying out their justification. Making government justify their purchases doesn't hurt the country, state or county.

I don't agree they are "blowing money." Keep up the good fight in trying to prevent the purchase.

 

[ghitch75]

will be the best money Bloomington has spend in over 50 years.....

 

[Denny347]

I covered it a few pages back a little more clearly. But basically something like an average of two events per year which caused grave danger for officers, and which danger was greatly reduced by the presence of a mobile hard point. Taking it on SWAT runs because it's sitting there doesn't count.

You know that pretty much ANY time a negotiator is needed at the scene, they use an armored vehicle to get close to the target location and the negotiator will communicate with them from inside the mobile bunker. That way they can see first hand what is going on and the PA will reach inside the structure. The fact that they were not getting shot at does not negate the effectiveness of a heavy vehicle. Nothing like approaching a high-risk warrant in safety and able to drive very close and deploy quickly to reduce risk. What you ask is easy to show. However, what the detractors of this purchase are mainly focused on is the "militarization" of BPD, which is a bunch of silliness.

 

[Woobie]

You know that pretty much ANY time a negotiator is needed at the scene, they use an armored vehicle to get close to the target location and the negotiator will communicate with them from inside the mobile bunker. That way they can see first hand what is going on and the PA will reach inside the structure. The fact that they were not getting shot at does not negate the effectiveness of a heavy vehicle. Nothing like approaching a high-risk warrant in safety and able to drive very close and deploy quickly to reduce risk. What you ask is easy to show. However, what the detractors of this purchase are mainly focused on is the "militarization" of BPD, which is a bunch of silliness.

So has BPD had a lot of these events. I can see the general usefulness easily enough. What I don't see is the history of these types of events in Bloomington. And apparently Bloomington is having trouble either finding them or communicating them.

 

[ghitch75]

go up on pigeon hill and stay the night.....

So has BPD had a lot of these events. I can see the general usefulness easily enough. What I don't see is the history of these types of events in Bloomington. And apparently Bloomington is having trouble either finding them or communicating them.

do you live there or have family that lives there?????????

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

do you live there or have family that lives there?????????

Is that that government housing over on the west side of downtown, up from where Bender's is or was?

I don' know that Bloomington is like Chicago or even Indianapolis but it's not like the Mayberry the chamber of commerce likes to promote it as.