Black Dog Machine Company – Broken Feed Lips and Customer Service

[lovemywoods]

In September 2007 I purchased 3 Black Dog Machine magazines to run with a .22 Ciener conversion in an AR-15. During the next 18 months, I ran around 400-500 rounds through each magazine.

In February of this year, I noticed that the right-hand feed lip had cracked. Here is a picture of the failure. It’s a close-up looking from the back side of the magazine.

I sent emails to Kevin Rich, the owner of Black Dog Machine. He quickly replied that they would take care of it. Waited….Sent another email….waited…..sent a third email recently and today received a complete new magazine. Glad to get the replacement, sorry it took five months and two follow-up emails to make it happen.

This is the second feed lip failure I’ve had with BDM magazines. I have a concern that the feed lips aren’t strong enough to withstand continued use. Black Dog replaced the first failed magazine also; and even sent three of the then-new followers for my other magazines.

There are now competitive products being marketed. CMMG makes full-body magazines that work in their conversion and the Ciener conversion.

http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=81


My bottom line for Black Dog Machine customer service:
Feed lip design “C”
Standing behind their products “A”
Speed of response to problems “D”

 

[shooter521]

Dave:

I had exactly the same problem with one of mine last year, and two more that developed cracks but did not actually split. These were mags with less than 200 rounds apiece on them. I exchanged a couple Emails with someone at BDM, sent all three mags in and had three brand-new ones within 2 weeks.

I believe the problem is in the material used, rather than in the feed lip design. I see your mag is one of the "smoke" ones, as were all of mine. I've never heard of this happening with the black BDM mags. BDM denies the clear/smoke and black mags are made of different materials, but I think that's bunk. Clear/translucent mags of many types (Bulgarian 5.56 AK, Polish Beryl, Steyr AUG, SIG 551, and even the smoke PMAGs) seem to suffer from a higher rate of structural failures than their colored/opaque counterparts.

I bought a couple of the CMMG mags, but have yet to run them. If I buy any more BDM mags in the future, they will be black rather than smoke or clear.

My

 

[lovemywoods]

I believe the problem is in the material used, rather than in the feed lip design. I see your mag is one of the "smoke" ones, as were all of mine. I've never heard of this happening with the black BDM mags. BDM denies the clear/smoke and black mags are made of different materials, but I think that's bunk.

Fascinating observation! It's likely that the base polymer is the same among all color types, but there has to be different materials added to create the different colors. Those colorants may be present in small amounts, but it appears they affect the strength of the magazines, particularly at stress points.

Any polymer formulation experts on INGO that have some explinations?

 

[r6vr6]

From the picture there doesn't appear to be any radius at the base of the feedlip. This is a contributor to why it broke.(could be the entire reason) Plastic parts especially need to have radii because they can't handle the stress rise associated with sharp corners. I'll check my cmmg mags and see if they have a radius there.

cmmg has no radius either

 

[Slow Hand]

Looks like I need to send a few more emails or just call. I bought 10 mags for my AC556 and none of them feed correctly. They will feed a few rounds per mag, sometimes rounds 30-22 or so, some in the mid 20's to the teens. The rounds are nosediving and it seems that under recoil some of the rims are slipping behind the rim of the shell below it, causing it to mis-feed. Also, if you look at the first round loaded, it sits at a totally different angle than all the rest on top of it.

I sent a first email before actually test firing them and he reccomended using round nosed ammo. After (trying to) fire them, I found out what the problem was and emailed him a nice, detailed report. Gave him two weeks and didn't hear back. Re-sent toe email earlier this week and have heard nothing. I've always heard good stuff about BDM and was very excited about getting some of the Mini-14/AC556 mags, but am kinda bummed out right now. The factory Ceiner mag worked 100% no matter waht kind of ammo we ran through it, but it sucks to have a pile of mags laying there and keep loading the same 30 rounder over and over. I was really wanting to use this rifle at FNS, but with only one 30 round mag and the way I shoot, I don't think that'll happen!

Doug K

 

[following2dp]

5 Months! looks like I have something to look forward to... this happened to me last weekend. I was loading the magazine and somewhere between 15-20 rounds, they all just jumped out of the magazine and into the dirt.

Fairly new magazines at that, I've only had them since around January.
I like the smokey clear colored magazines because I can visually see how much is loaded, but now I'm considering the cmmg's.

 

[mettle]

I have 5 black ones. I hope this is not what I can expect as well!!!

'Following', have you contacted the manufacturer yet? I'd like to know what they have to say about this. I plan on hitting Friday Night Steel with my Spike's; but, I may scratch the idea and just go '10/22' if they are going to die under the pressure.

 

[shooter521]

Update from my end... last weekend, I discovered that one of the replacement mags BDM sent me has developed full-thickness feedlip and spine cracks, again after less than 200 rounds through it. Bag this!

The CMMG mags, OTOH, ran like champs and show ZERO evidence of wear or stress cracks. Based on that, I ordered 4 more from Indiana Supply Depot (Cwood); they will become my new standard. I will run my remaining 3 BDMs to destruction, whereupon I will scavenge the internals for spare parts and use their broken bodies as targets.

this happened to me last weekend. I was loading the magazine and somewhere between 15-20 rounds, they all just jumped out of the magazine and into the dirt.

Fairly new magazines at that

I initially thought this phenomenon was limited to the smoke/translucent mags, but you're the second INGO'er who has reported problems with the black BDMs:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...timount_and_other_nfa_items-2.html#post492438

 

[doglb]

Thanks for posting this, I am in the market for a .22 conversion for my AR. Good to know-about BDM mags.

Good to know to stay away from.
Looks like CMMG conversion/mags are in the running!

 

[lovemywoods]

I will run my remaining 3 BDMs to destruction, whereupon I will scavenge the internals for spare parts and use their broken bodies as targets. (emphasis added)

[sarcasm 'on']

Wow Shooter, glad to see you're not the type to hold a grudge....!!

[sarcasm 'off']

 

[lovemywoods]

Black Dog magazines...need a left side?

Due to feed lip failures of two right side magazine lips, I have two left half pieces of the 30 round magazines in smoke color that aren't doing me any good.

If another INGO member could use the part to make a whole magazine, I would gladly ship it to you. Let me know.

 

[repair]

I wonder if it has to do with the upper that you are using because I haven't had any problems with any of mine and they have had way more them 200 rounds through them.

 

[VUPDblue]

I put 1200 rounds through my Spike's kit last Monday using only 5 different mags. They still work... That said, I have heard that the smoke and clear mags have had feed lip breakage problems. The black ones are supposedly glass-reinforced and should yield better results. The same is to be said about the CMMG gray mags.

 

[standeford]

I bought a half dozen tan BDM mags because they were on sale. Maybe 200 rounds through each and they are OK so far.

Can't specifically comment on what polymer BDM is using, but you typically find companies putting more regrind in heavily colored injection molded parts because the color hides variation. If anything I'd suspect the smoke mags to have the highest virgin content. I don't exactly know injection molding well though.

If anyone would really like to know, I can check a smoke mag versus my tans ones (my factory KT mag is a smoke BDM).