Beer Virus V

[T.Lex]

Not something I've seen, either; but then, outside of my parents, I don't have a lot of people in my circle who would generally bring up shingles in casual conversation.

I only know a little bit about shingles, but isn't it a delayed viral response, or some sort of delayed immune/autoimmune response from chicken pox? Perhaps something with the action of a virus (i.e. creating an immune response) could trigger something that has to do with the shingles pathway? I don't know; just spit-balling.

Vaccines, as with therapeutic drug products, get associated with all manner of side effects. Every single one of them. Some are related, but rare and/or mild enough that they are acceptable. Some are merely correlated (i.e. unrelated to the drug product but were observed during a trial or reported through pharmacovigilance, and are thus included in the adverse event reporting database). Some are frequent and/or severe enough to warrant discontinuing the drug investigation and/or approval process.

So, it honestly never surprises me when someone says, "side effect X was reported for drug Y."

Yeah, that's all fair.

And yeah, shingles is basically the chickenpox virus dormant until... well... until it isn't dormant anymore. I knew from before that it can be triggered by stress, other immuno-issues, or sometimes without a specific trigger at all. Apparently it is quite painful, though, so that particular vaccine is moving up in priority for me.

Thanks!

 

[Tombs]

This is the first I've heard of anyone mentioning shingles in relation to a covid vaccine.

I've heard of just about every other possible nightmare resulting from the astra zeneca vaccine, but never shingles.

 

[T.Lex]

This is the first I've heard of anyone mentioning shingles in relation to a covid vaccine.

I've heard of just about every other possible nightmare resulting from the astra zeneca vaccine, but never shingles.

For reference, back in February it was going around reddit to the point that some medical people felt like they should address it. Sorry, it doesn't look like it was the CDC, though.

(One might argue that it takes the CDC months to do anything, but that may be like kicking a .gov agency when they're down at this point.)

COVID-19 Vaccines

Vaccines are seen as one of the best ways to stop COVID-19. Learn more about the types of vaccines, including the newly approved Novavax.

www.webmd.com

 

[nonobaddog]

For reference, back in February it was going around reddit to the point that some medical people felt like they should address it. Sorry, it doesn't look like it was the CDC, though.

(One might argue that it takes the CDC months to do anything, but that may be like kicking a .gov agency when they're down at this point.)

COVID-19 Vaccines

Vaccines are seen as one of the best ways to stop COVID-19. Learn more about the types of vaccines, including the newly approved Novavax.

www.webmd.com

But those comments were from "experts" - which means we now need to know what kind of "experts" they are. Are they phony "experts", political "experts", agenda driven "experts", lying "experts" or normal "experts"? Only then can we even think about trusting the words of "experts".

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Yeah, that's all fair.

And yeah, shingles is basically the chickenpox virus dormant until... well... until it isn't dormant anymore. I knew from before that it can be triggered by stress, other immuno-issues, or sometimes without a specific trigger at all. Apparently it is quite painful, though, so that particular vaccine is moving up in priority for me.

Thanks!

I suppose it's reasonable to suspect that the additional stress from the lockdowns, isolation, etc. could cause an increase in shingles. Not really a result of the vaccinations though.

 

[T.Lex]

I suppose it's reasonable to suspect that the additional stress from the lockdowns, isolation, etc. could cause an increase in shingles. Not really a result of the vaccinations though.

Yeah - and again, this is purely anecdotal, it seems strange to see the uptick *after* getting vaccinated. That is, at that point, people should feel less stress.

If there is a correlation, it seems to me that it is one immunity-system-effecting modality (the vaccine) triggering an unintended immunity-system response (shingles). There really aren't that many vaccines (that I know of) intended for those of us later in life (shingles being one), and having tens of millions of people in that demographic vaccinated is unprecedented.

So, if there is a correlation, I expect it to be general, rather than specific to COVID. But, since this mRNA mass production stuff is still relatively new (correct me if I'm wrong on that, chip) it does weird me out a bit to think about.

Take that, science!

 

[Tombs]

Yeah - and again, this is purely anecdotal, it seems strange to see the uptick *after* getting vaccinated. That is, at that point, people should feel less stress.

I don't know man, taking a vaccine that is lacking about 2 years worth of standard safety testing is probably a pretty wild ride.

I wouldn't take it but the ones using the newest technology, like the mRNA ones, seem to be the least problematic.

 

[NKBJ]

The sheets you linked do NOT say that "trials haven't been performed..." They simply don't say that. In fact, they say exactly the opposite.

On mRNA: again, it's basic biology. I don't have to prove "zero". You have to prove "non-zero".

And, yes; using mRNA to turn on/off gene expression is exactly why I said that it is more epigenetic than genetic therapy.

The sheet says they are unapproved and the trials are ongoing. That's unapproved and trials not done. You know, something I haven't bothered to check on are updated sheets. I'm not really interested at this point in time. If and when I am forced to take the jab in order to engage in commerce and society as is being implemented in some areas of the world, then I will be very interested. Today over lunch we were discussing this part of our world and when I said that at some point it is likely that I will have to take the jabs in order to be able to provide for her, to take care of her, she smiled and said she had the same thoughts about taking care of me. She's a good one.

As regards your claim that I have to prove non-zero...
Why, because you said so? Really? You have no data to prove what you started this with, the claim of zero. A claim that I do not see as justifiable.

Chip, this is getting to be a little ridiculous.

 

[NKBJ]

No brag. Shingles scares me way more than Covid, having seen others go through it.

Yeah, the wife and I were talking about the shingles shot. And, the script for my pneumonia shot is in my wallet.

 

[nonobaddog]

What do they call the shingles shot in a med record? I have one listing for HZV in 2010 - is that for shingles? Do you need to get that shot every so many years or is it one and done?

 

[BugI02]

Herpes Zoster Vaccination. Yes, the virus that causes shingles is from the same family as 'the gift that keeps on giving'

 

[JettaKnight]

No brag. Shingles scares me way more than Covid, having seen others go through it.

Yeah, they suck. My wife had an outbreak years ago. I wonder if it's connected to her severe chicken pox as a child.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Yeah, they suck. My wife had an outbreak years ago. I wonder if it's connected to her severe chicken pox as a child.

It absolutely is. Same virus that has been lying dormant since then.

 

[oze]

I've had the first of two of both the covid and shingles shots. The shingles shot hurt a lot more than the Covid shot. Orders of magnitude more. And the shingles injection site pain lasted for days, as opposed to a couple of hours with covid.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[chipbennett]

The sheet says they are unapproved and the trials are ongoing. That's unapproved and trials not done. You know, something I haven't bothered to check on are updated sheets. I'm not really interested at this point in time. If and when I am forced to take the jab in order to engage in commerce and society as is being implemented in some areas of the world, then I will be very interested. Today over lunch we were discussing this part of our world and when I said that at some point it is likely that I will have to take the jabs in order to be able to provide for her, to take care of her, she smiled and said she had the same thoughts about taking care of me. She's a good one.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hold on right there. Holy Goalpost-Moving, Batman!

You didn't say, "unapproved and trials not done." You said, "untested."

(By the way, a bit of insider information. Initial market release is unofficially considered the phase-four clinical trial. Because no matter how wide-spread the Phase 3 trial, it's not really known how a drug will impact the market at-large until market release. That's why pharmacovigilance is part of market authorization - just as heightened pharmacovigilance is part of EUA.)

As regards your claim that I have to prove non-zero...
Why, because you said so? Really? You have no data to prove what you started this with, the claim of zero. A claim that I do not see as justifiable.

Chip, this is getting to be a little ridiculous.

That's not how this works. The basic, biological understanding of mRNA is just as I described. It doesn't go back into the nucleus. For you to claim otherwise puts the burden of proof on you, not on me, to prove how mRNA gets back into the nucleus.

You might as well be asking me to prove that fecal matter doesn't move backward through the digestive track and into the stomach - or to prove how a differentiated cell can't convert itself back into a stem cell.

 

[ghuns]

...The shingles shot hurt a lot more than the Covid shot. Orders of magnitude more...

I've heard that one is a biatch.

 

[JettaKnight]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hold on right there. Holy Goalpost-Moving, Batman!

You didn't say, "unapproved and trials not done." You said, "untested."

(By the way, a bit of insider information. Initial market release is unofficially considered the phase-four clinical trial. Because no matter how wide-spread the Phase 3 trial, it's not really known how a drug will impact the market at-large until market release. That's why pharmacovigilance is part of market authorization - just as heightened pharmacovigilance is part of EUA.)



That's not how this works. The basic, biological understanding of mRNA is just as I described. It doesn't go back into the nucleus. For you to claim otherwise puts the burden of proof on you, not on me, to prove how mRNA gets back into the nucleus.

You might as well be asking me to prove that fecal matter doesn't move backward through the digestive track and into the stomach - or to prove how a differentiated cell can't convert itself back into a stem cell.

That's true, I saw it on South Park.

 

[oze]

I've heard that one is a biatch.

It almost felt like the covid shot injected a pea-sized bolus into my arm, and the shingles shot injected something the size of a golf ball.

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[nonobaddog]

This is the fourth day after COVID shot number two and the swelling in my deltoid has finally gone down a lot, barely there.
This was the longest lasting swelling I have ever had - including the shingles shot which didn't bother me at all. There is a lot of individual variance in this stuff.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Just an observation...






These men would be Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health, and Dick van Dyke, respectively. At this point I believe I would have more confidence in medical advice from van Dyke.