Beer Virus V

[jamil]

1 in 1000 people died from covid. Wonder how many businesses failed due to shutdowns.

 

[foszoe]

Saw that its topped WW2 for fatalities

 

[actaeon277]

warning.
some "language"

[video=youtube;9df1mrMapCk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9df1mrMapCk[/video]

 

[BugI02]

Saw that its topped WW2 for fatalities

31.8.2: Casualties of World War II

Some 75 million people died in World War II, including about 20 million military personnel and 40 million civilians, many of whom died because of deliberate genocide, massacres, mass-bombings, disease, and starvation.

 

[foszoe]

Was the 1/1000 a world wide statistic?

 

[indyartisan]

 

[foszoe]

Found the article...

The claim was battlefield deaths in ww2. So I looked up total us fatalities from ww2 and the number was in the low 400k range. So by that measure. We are 2/3-3/4 of the way there leaving only the Civil War with a higher death toll of 600-850k.

 

[BugI02]

Was the 1/1000 a world wide statistic?

1.6 million deaths total worldwide, 7.8 billion total population - both to 2 sigfigs

1.6 x 10^6
7.8 x 10^9 equals 2.1 x 10^-4 or 0.00021 or ~1/4762

 

[BugI02]

Saw that its topped WW2 for fatalities

If the claim was 'battlefield deaths', then the crucial word 'battlefield' is MIA

If we are talking only US deaths (how very Americentric of you) you are still leaving out some critical terms

 

[ditcherman]

Doesn’t this “prove” that, while I believe in covid, way too many deaths are being attributed to it? It just seems too obvious.
Like, 30 years from now were all going to be sitting around saying “grandson, have I ever told you about the year everyone died from a single cause?”

 

[indyartisan]

Doesn’t this “prove” that, while I believe in covid, way too many deaths are being attributed to it? It just seems too obvious.
Like, 30 years from now were all going to be sitting around saying “grandson, have I ever told you about the year everyone died from a single cause?”

The info is from the CDC, I suppose they don’t think we are capable of making the connection.
Where is Mr Obvious when we need him.

 

[jamil]

Was the 1/1000 a world wide statistic?

This isn’t just about your post, it’s about the whole line of thinking. So I’m not picking on you specifically.

Why are we comparing a pandemic to man made phenomenon? Why aren’t we comparing it to other pandemics? Are we trying to attach a moral to the spread of this? Are we trying to assign blame and shame people for it? For those of you who are thinking of it that way, shame right back atcha. That’s not helpful.

 

[churchmouse]

This isn’t just about your post, it’s about the whole line of thinking. So I’m not picking on you specifically.

Why are we comparing a pandemic to man made phenomenon? Why aren’t we comparing it to other pandemics? Are we trying to attach a moral to the spread of this? Are we trying to assign blame and shame people for it? For those of you who are thinking of it that way, shame right back atcha. That’s not helpful.

​"WINNING"

 

[jsharmon7]

This isn’t just about your post, it’s about the whole line of thinking. So I’m not picking on you specifically.

Why are we comparing a pandemic to man made phenomenon? Why aren’t we comparing it to other pandemics? Are we trying to attach a moral to the spread of this? Are we trying to assign blame and shame people for it? For those of you who are thinking of it that way, shame right back atcha. That’s not helpful.

Yes. I’ve seen a number of snarky liberal Twitter posts referencing 9/11 and conservatives not caring. I do not understand how this virus became the fault of conservatives. Aside from Trump hate, the only guess I can make is they are making the assumption that all conservatives are anti-mask, anti-vaccine, anti-lockdown. My biggest issue with the left is how they mistake snark for intelligence.

 

[foszoe]

This isn’t just about your post, it’s about the whole line of thinking. So I’m not picking on you specifically.

Why are we comparing a pandemic to man made phenomenon? Why aren’t we comparing it to other pandemics? Are we trying to attach a moral to the spread of this? Are we trying to assign blame and shame people for it? For those of you who are thinking of it that way, shame right back atcha. That’s not helpful.

For me it was more about wow trivia nothing more...but you raise an interesting question

There are people, IRL and here on INGO that have raised the possibility or outright believe this is not a pandemic in the truest sense. They believe that this is a biological attack iniated by China either accidentally or intentionally. Now for those that believe Covid is a biological agent intentionally released, would your questions apply?

Their starting point is its man-made not a pandemic so its right to blame and shame the Chinese and to be consistent, the deaths would be at least an act of war casualties without a declaration of war formally.

 

[dusty88]

I can't read the links in that chart. Can you reference the actual pages you pulled the data from? 2020 will not have most death certificates reported yet. A reporting system was set up for the pandemic but normally reported deaths come in much later. 2019 is still considered "provisional".

How did you calculate the projection for 2020?

 

[dusty88]

This isn’t just about your post, it’s about the whole line of thinking. So I’m not picking on you specifically.

Why are we comparing a pandemic to man made phenomenon? Why aren’t we comparing it to other pandemics? Are we trying to attach a moral to the spread of this? Are we trying to assign blame and shame people for it? For those of you who are thinking of it that way, shame right back atcha. That’s not helpful.

I suppose if we were debating moral concerns I'm a lot more upset about when we start wars and ignore the deaths. But I think the number of deaths is relevant because Americans have become numb to the number of cases and deaths per day

 

[jamil]

For me it was more about wow trivia nothing more...but you raise an interesting question

There are people, IRL and here on INGO that have raised the possibility or outright believe this is not a pandemic in the truest sense. They believe that this is a biological attack iniated by China either accidentally or intentionally. Now for those that believe Covid is a biological agent intentionally released, would your questions apply?

Their starting point is its man-made not a pandemic so its right to blame and shame the Chinese and to be consistent, the deaths would be at least an act of war casualties without a declaration of war formally.

First, if it were a man-made and intentionally spread then blame is certainly deserved. But the sentiment I’m railing against is when moral superiority wells up so much that pithy statements preceding “...be better” just spew forth. I’m not talking about you necessarily. But there does seem to be some INGOers who post like they believe the spread of covid, and America’s higher death rate is squarely the fault of conservatives. And as well, they blame conservatives for the need to lock things down again.

 

[jamil]

I suppose if we were debating moral concerns I'm a lot more upset about when we start wars and ignore the deaths. But I think the number of deaths is relevant because Americans have become numb to the number of cases and deaths per day

Is it a call to “be better?” Because if it is I’m gonna roll my eyes. I’m not unsympathetic for the people who died and their families. Looking at the people affected by covid thread, I’m just not seeing it. People are aware of the deaths. Some people think conspiratorial things about it. Doesn’t mean they’re numb. Some other people think, with some evidence, that the deaths were mostly people that were attributed to covid that would have ended up as a statistic in another category if it weren’t for covid.

So is it that you think if we’re more aware of the number of people dying from covid people would take it more seriously? If so, I think that’s the wrong thing. People are already aware. A lecture to “be better” isn’t going to fix anything that’s broke. I think the thing to fix is what people believe about it. What broke that was inconsistent reporting. Maybe when the experts don’t know **** about it, they should STFU until they do know. Maybe experts shouldn’t lie to manipulate people to behave like they want. Maybe media should take some responsibility themselves in how they report stuff. It breeds misinformation and skepticism and distrust when they hear so much conflicting information and complete 180 degree contradictions from what they said the week before.

Also, another thing that breeds conspiracy theories is social media shutting down speech. When you act like you’re hiding something, people suspect you’re hiding something. But all that **** has already happened. The distrust genie is out of the bottle and I’m not sure how anyone could put it back at this point. I’m pretty sure a reminder of what people already know won’t do it.

 

[dusty88]

Is it a call to “be better?” Because if it is I’m gonna roll my eyes. I’m not unsympathetic for the people who died and their families. Looking at the people affected by covid thread, I’m just not seeing it. People are aware of the deaths. Some people think conspiratorial things about it. Doesn’t mean they’re numb. Some other people think, with some evidence, that the deaths were mostly people that were attributed to covid that would have ended up as a statistic in another category if it weren’t for covid.

So is it that you think if we’re more aware of the number of people dying from covid people would take it more seriously? If so, I think that’s the wrong thing. People are already aware. A lecture to “be better” isn’t going to fix anything that’s broke. I think the thing to fix is what people believe about it. What broke that was inconsistent reporting. Maybe when the experts don’t know **** about it, they should STFU until they do know. Maybe experts shouldn’t lie to manipulate people to behave like they want. Maybe media should take some responsibility themselves in how they report stuff. It breeds misinformation and skepticism and distrust when they hear so much conflicting information and complete 180 degree contradictions from what they said the week before.

Also, another thing that breeds conspiracy theories is social media shutting down speech. When you act like you’re hiding something, people suspect you’re hiding something. But all that **** has already happened. The distrust genie is out of the bottle and I’m not sure how anyone could put it back at this point. I’m pretty sure a reminder of what people already know won’t do it.

I think the distrust and division was already here before the pandemic even started.

It is sad and frustrating to see a lot of people on social media that, in my view, are determined to minimize the pandemic and claimed that these people would have died anyway. That just isn't true in the sense of statistics and demographics

The increasing hostility towards people of different political views has obviously been growing in recent decades. I would have thought an outside threat like a virus would cause us to band together, in a wartime effort, but it seems to have divided us even further. Polls do show it's conservatives that are less likely to take the pandemic seriously. But liberals have been just as bad with their hypocritical governors and mayors violating their own recommendations, and few of them speaking up about the protests last summer.