Army National Guard Recruiting FEMA Camp Or "Internment/Resettlement" Specialists

[Britton]

Wow, lots of good discussion and I know it must be hard to keep it civil given how controversial the subject is. No one will ever know for sure how they will react if a military force is given the order to confiscate weapons, no one from either side. As a former officer in the US Military I would have faith in the current officers and NCO's to make the correct decisions, to understand if an order is lawful or not. As a citizen, now out of the Military, I pray that if ever the day comes that I would make the right decision. God help us all if that day ever happens.
No matter what side you are currently on, we are still all on the same side.

 

[techres]

I am going to be very careful about what I say and only comment that there are things worth dying for, and hopefully worth living for as well. At the same time, each of us has this one life and should not be too quick to sacrifice it or sell it short.

All else on that side of the line is not for this board.

But there is still plenty, plenty of time for conversation on this side of the line.

(and don't ask me to define where that line is, you all know what I mean...)

 

[SavageEagle]

Understandable and that's why I'm walking away from this thread. I value my membership and the friends I've made here more than a bunch of words in a post. Besides, idiocy is running rampant everywhere and it's best not to argue with them.

If you think that that describes me, then stop trying to provoke me and go provoke others who believe just the same as I do.

 

[mrjarrell]

Best to not forget the 29 Palms survey. While the majority of Marines that were interviewed by Navy Lt Cmdr. Ernest G Cunningham wouldn't shoot Americans during a gun confiscation, the numbers who would, (or who would follow orders to confiscate firearms) were not insignificant.

Question 46, dealing with a gun confiscation scenario, jolted both the Marines and the Navy, as well as the Department of Defense, numerous members of the House and Senate and virtually every American concerned about the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees the people's right to keep and bear arms."

VERY DISTURBING

This is how the question was posed to the Marines:

"The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting firearms. A thirty day amnesty period is permitted for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of citizens groups refuse to turn over their firearms.

Consider the following statement: `I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government'."

The question was then posed as to what degree the individual Marine agreed with the Statement.

According to the results given in Cunningham's thesis, a total of 88 percent, or 264 Marines, responded to the question.

Of the 264 who responded, 26.34 percent, or 79 Marines, indicated they would be willing to "fire upon U.S. citizens."

Of that total, 18.67 percent, or 56 Marines, indicated they "agree" with the statement, and 7.67 percent, or 23 Marines, indicated that they "strongly agree."

A total of 61.66 percent, or 185, indicated that they were opposed to firing at citizens.

Of the total, 42.33 percent, or 127, indicated they "strongly disagree" and 19.33 percent, or 58, indicated they "disagree."

In his thesis, Cunningham noted: "This particular question, unlike the others, elicited from 15.97 percent of the respondents with an opinion, either heavier pen or pencil marks on their response or written comments in the margin space. The responses to this scenario suggest that a complete unit breakdown could occur in a unit tasked to execute this mission,"

Have those numbers changed much in the last 15 years? I don't know. I hope so. And how would those same few respond to other situations?

 

[HICKMAN]

Have those numbers changed much in the last 15 years? I don't know. I hope so. And how would those same few respond to other situations?

Still have to remember, they only asked 300... that's a very small sample.

 

[mrjarrell]

Still have to remember, they only asked 300... that's a very small sample.

It's actually a representative sample, just like the majority of polls.

 

[shooter521]

It's actually a representative sample, just like the majority of polls.

Which means the conclusions you can draw from it are very limited... just like the majority of polls.

 

[mrjarrell]

Which means the conclusions you can draw from it are very limited... just like the majority of polls.

Not really. It's statistically valid.

 

[csaws]

Is this thread even Survival or Prep related? I think Politics is more suited for this thread. I see no bearing or prepping or survival events/tactics/skills.

 

[Pale Rider]

.... reading this whole thread at once gave me a headache... it also clued me in that the first 3 pages are repeated over and over.


(putting popcorn down) Bottom line as I see it... kids can't play nice mom takes away the toys. Is mom right to take away from Johnny what is rightfully his and chuck it out the window? No, does it help her focus on the road instead of the scuffle in the backseat so she can keep the car on the road, yes. This is and will continue to be a never ending debate that could and may have already contributed to a few aneurysms. Katrina and NO sucked (and that's and understatement) been there a few years back and it was still all F'd up. Have we as a country (our leaders included) learned from this mistake? I would like to think so then again I don't own a tin foil hat. Are any of the people involved in this thread major political figures, or running for an office that will let them make the big decisions in such a scenario? Doubt it.

For those not in the military. A soldier on the ground has to make split second decisions that are life and death (not just their own) and deciding whether to disarm or fire on ones own country men is one I pray I'll never have to make... then again I'm a private so a lot of decisions are made for me...

picking it back up

PS
Smile Jesus loves you, even when I don't

 

[Zoub]

It's actually a representative sample, just like the majority of polls.

Yes it could be but just the act of studying a process alters the outcome when humans are invovled. These questions were asked and answered by individuals on a test at a desk. They were not measured while carrying out the act. That is why the USAF tested staff in missle silos and B52's, they have to know they will execute their orders.

In a group or unit, the outcome will be affected by multiple individuals. You may get unit breakdown AKA failure to enforce the law or follow orders to fire or you may get 100% trigger pullers in a group.

So if you measure by that you may have 100% or 0% failure as long as at least 1 unit member fires? It all depends on how you want to measure it. It starts with if the leader will even give the order. Soliders are NOT cops.

The trick is to make sure you are not in front of a firing squad, but rather behind it. You are more likely to be killed by a SWAT team than a soldier. It takes a SWAT team half a day to mobilize to kill one shooter in one home. With SWAT teams working 24/7 and lets say 8 teams in rotation, killing 8 Hoosiers in Indy per day, how long do you think that would last?

OK so now lets say it is going in 5 major cities at once.

SWAT will have casualties, resignations, and refusals to continue. Their staff is highly trained and not replaced over night. The press would have a field day with it.

They will take your guns in court, just like they did in England. Have you ever seen a mass military slaughter there yet? Australia? Canada? Other 1st world countires? No.

 

[Zoub]

What I am interested in is what we can do now, to avoid any such decision/decisions from ever having to be made.

And I do appreciate those who put their lives at risk for me and mine. Your hard work is appreciated, and your safety is prayed for.

See my post above.

What you do is keep the conversation focused on reality. No shootings, hangings or other BS discussed. You don't go in 5 directions at once in one thread. Look at all the different directions this thread went. It serves no purpose. For the most part it is crap.

As for who will follow what orders:
You have your morales and ethics in place by around age 9. The lack of good parenting and Father figures has had a huge affect on our society. I think this is our X factor. They even found this with Elephants. Rogue "teenage" Elephants go on killing spree. Reintroduce adult male Elephants (they had all been shot) and bad behavior STOPS.

They will never come at you through the front door, it will be in court. They will supress until you decide if you will follow the laws and then they will prosecute one by one. It only takes 2 generations to remove something.

As for you SavageEagle, IMHO you come off as a big talking coward who constantly trys too provoke others with no real thought. I just called you on your BS. That provokes you? I know Obama does not liek it either.

To make my point I have never negative repped one person in here and I never will. If you get hammered in a thread and negative rep me as an A**hole, which you did, well that is commical but not adult.

That is no different then the guy who hides behind the drapes in Wizard of Oz.............and to some degree THAT is exactly what this thread is about.

Grow up before you play with adults.

 

[flagtag]

What does "Mom and the kids" have to do with anything?
How does that compare with "our" corrupt government trying to take our guns away?

In the first case - chances are that mom bought the toys and not the kids, they are officially hers and she just allows the kids to play with them. And even if the kids did earn the money to buy the toys, they still could not do it without mom's permission and she is legally responsible for the kids.

"Our" corrupt government didn't buy our guns for us. We bought them. We are not children. (As much as the Naziwannabes like to try to treat us as such. It makes them feel more powerful!) Only WE have the right to decide what to do with them. The corrupt government, in violating the Constitution, committs crimes - possibly even treason - if the try to take them from us. (Even if they try to use the courts, because even the judges have to swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution.)

Comparing the two situations makes no sense.

 

[raiven]

well this is a surprise

Oxford Hills
National Guard drill at high school to prepare for possible H1N1 riot
By Leslie H. Dixon, Staff WriterPublished: Aug 13, 2009 1:46 am PARIS — Oxford Hills Comprehensive High School will be the site of a National Guard riot control drill Thursday morning to prepare in the event of a panic over distribution of serum to treat the swine flu.

The school on Route 26 at the Paris-Norway town line has been designated by state officials as a distribution site for the H1N1 flu vaccine. The drill is to prepare for a worst-case scenario should the serum have to be transported from Augusta and people rush to get it.

On Thursday morning, four or five National Guard Humvees will travel from Augusta to Paris with vials of fake serum. The National Guardsmen will take on the roles of panicked citizens and military police and practice what they would do, such as using tear gas, in the case of a riot.

"This is just a component of moving the stuff from point A to B," said Oxford County Emergency Management Agency Director Scott Parker. The plan will be put into place only if needed, he said.

Plans were developed in April to have vials of serum sent from the federal government to Augusta, Parker said. From Augusta, the supplies will be transported to designated distribution centers.

During the April conference, concerns were raised about a possible out-of-control rush on the serum, Parker said. Because of that concern, Gov. John Baldacci and Gen. John Libby, adjutant general of the Maine National Guard, agreed that a plan should be devised to quell such a disturbance.

Local police chiefs have also been involved in the planning, Parker said. In a real event, local police would be in charge of security once the serum arrives in Paris. "We own it. We're in charge of providing security," he said.

As of Aug. 5, the Maine Center for Disease Control said there had been 323 confirmed cases of H1N1 in Maine, of which 176 are Maine residents and the rest out-of-staters diagnosed in Maine. A total of 19 people required hospitalization. Sixty percent of the victims were under the age of 25.

On Tuesday, health authorities reported Maine's first death from the H1N1 virus. Dr. Dora Anne Mills, director of the Maine Center for Disease Control, said a York County man in his 50s was hospitalized for three weeks and died last week of underlying conditions complicated by H1N1.

The drill will take place behind the school and will not affect the day-to-day activities within the school. Access to the school building will be available through the main entrance, Parker said.

ldixon@sunjournal.com

National Guard drill at high school to prepare for possible H1N1 riot | Sun Journal

 

[WWIIIDefender]

well this is a surprise

Oxford Hills
National Guard drill at high school to prepare for possible H1N1 riot
By Leslie H. Dixon, Staff WriterPublished: Aug 13, 2009 1:46 am PARIS — Oxford Hills Comprehensive High School will be the site of a National Guard riot control drill Thursday morning to prepare in the event of a panic over distribution of serum to treat the swine flu.

The school on Route 26 at the Paris-Norway town line has been designated by state officials as a distribution site for the H1N1 flu vaccine. The drill is to prepare for a worst-case scenario should the serum have to be transported from Augusta and people rush to get it.

On Thursday morning, four or five National Guard Humvees will travel from Augusta to Paris with vials of fake serum. The National Guardsmen will take on the roles of panicked citizens and military police and practice what they would do, such as using tear gas, in the case of a riot.

"This is just a component of moving the stuff from point A to B," said Oxford County Emergency Management Agency Director Scott Parker. The plan will be put into place only if needed, he said.

Plans were developed in April to have vials of serum sent from the federal government to Augusta, Parker said. From Augusta, the supplies will be transported to designated distribution centers.

During the April conference, concerns were raised about a possible out-of-control rush on the serum, Parker said. Because of that concern, Gov. John Baldacci and Gen. John Libby, adjutant general of the Maine National Guard, agreed that a plan should be devised to quell such a disturbance.

Local police chiefs have also been involved in the planning, Parker said. In a real event, local police would be in charge of security once the serum arrives in Paris. "We own it. We're in charge of providing security," he said.

As of Aug. 5, the Maine Center for Disease Control said there had been 323 confirmed cases of H1N1 in Maine, of which 176 are Maine residents and the rest out-of-staters diagnosed in Maine. A total of 19 people required hospitalization. Sixty percent of the victims were under the age of 25.

On Tuesday, health authorities reported Maine's first death from the H1N1 virus. Dr. Dora Anne Mills, director of the Maine Center for Disease Control, said a York County man in his 50s was hospitalized for three weeks and died last week of underlying conditions complicated by H1N1.

The drill will take place behind the school and will not affect the day-to-day activities within the school. Access to the school building will be available through the main entrance, Parker said.

ldixon@sunjournal.com

National Guard drill at high school to prepare for possible H1N1 riot | Sun Journal

Raven you should start a new thread on this.

 

[Joe Williams]

snip

Good or bad Soldiers and Cops need to follow orders to uphold society in general. snip.

This is exactly the thinking that killed six million Jews.

 

[Zoub]

This is exactly the thinking that killed six million Jews.

No, it isn't. What killed Jews, and other ethnic groups was that the Soldiers agreed with their orders. They were conditioned to it long before the first order to murder was given. What killed Jews was allowing themselves to be disarmed and herded like cattle.

Soliders follow orders, they are trained to do so and they have to do so. Soldiers are NOT cops and that is where the problem lies, when a Govt. uses it's military against the enemy within, its own citizens. The same reason no Military should ever run a Govt. Same way politicians should not define targets in combat.

Saying I was just following orders is not a defensible position. We all know that. At the same time when a punk on the street shoots at a Cop he is shooting at all of us and our laws. He says he does not care what society thinks or expects. We expect him to be taken down. We will order professionals to do it.

It is not so black and white and Humans are more complex than that. You don't just up and get a Battalion to murder millions over night. That was not random combat soldiers just following orders.

Snip snip is BS, we can talk about it for years but my lessons came from my family that survived years in a concentration camp. "I beat them at their own game." is what he use to say. He was a Christian captured by Muslims and put in a concentration camp run by Nazi's. It goes way beyond snip snip..............but it is murder.