Army National Guard Recruiting FEMA Camp Or "Internment/Resettlement" Specialists

[techres]

Guys, this is perhaps one of the most important, and difficult conversation that we can ever have on this forum. Take it seriously and give it some respect.

There are two sides here who are being challenged to their core and are so strong in their conviction and so certain in their honesty that we need to tread carefully if we are going to do anything other than shut this thread down and hold off the conversation for another flame war - and in the end going nowhere.

My problem is that I understand both sides - the soldier trying to do his job, stay alive, and keep his oath as well as the citizen who worries that some day he will stand off against that very soldier.

This is a tough conversation to have and it is best had calmly, and without insults.

We have here a chance for non-military people to understand those very people that we need most - not only when TSHTF, but every day on our borders. They deserve our respect, and at the same time are willing to have a discussion. They are our friends, family, and protectors. They are not jack booted thugs. If they were, they would not be here.

We also have a chance for the military people to process their oath to the Constitution and what that may mean some day. And processing that now is far more important than on the day of decision.

We should never forget all that happened in Katrina. And it is ours to work out what should, can, and will be done differently next time.

But with all due respect to the conversation, calm down and make this worth our time. The results are far more important that our egos.

 

[SavageEagle]

Finally found it. Sorta. I hope you have a copy of America's 1st Freedom. I have this copy somewhere but I can't find it. It's in a box somewhere, but when women rearrange things.... you know how it is....

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/27/323821/documents/article_NRA_guns_of_katrina.pdf

Source of the find...Arfcom of all places...

NRA News: Justice At Last For Katrina Victims - AR15.COM

 

[MoparMan]

+1 for techres. I've got over 13 years in this Army as a Infantryman. So my feelings are usually very instinctive as they should be. After all i've done for this country i do not like being called a terrorist.

All i was saying is when your being attacked by fire you assault the objective and surrounding area taking in all arms and weapons. Now if soldiers were told to take weapons from areas that had nothing to do with the attacks then thats wrong but they were just following orders. If the military questioned every order, we would not be as great as we are. Be upset with the politicians that issued those orders.

 

[MoparMan]

Finally found it. Sorta. I hope you have a copy of America's 1st Freedom. I have this copy somewhere but I can't find it. It's in a box somewhere, but when women rearrange things.... you know how it is....

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/10/27/323821/documents/article_NRA_guns_of_katrina.pdf

Source of the find...Arfcom of all places...

NRA News: Justice At Last For Katrina Victims - AR15.COM

Holly Crap! Never saw that before. That sucks. Hope everyone gets the money they deserve even though some may be heirlooms.

 

[SavageEagle]

Tech got some well deserved rep from me also. I'm keeping a level head because I see the importance of the conversation. I'm trying to learn while make a point aswell and that's a hard thing to do, I assure you.

I understand the other's point of view, but to me, disarming everyone in an area because it's "hot" isn't necessarily necessary. Not in my mind. I mean, are they doing that in Iraq? Do they disarm all civilians even the ones they know are on our side just because the area is "hot"?

 

[SavageEagle]

Holly Crap! Never saw that before. That sucks. Hope everyone gets the money they deserve even though some may be heirlooms.

They didn't. They got those rusted heaps back and THAT'S ALL. Words cannot describe how pissed I was. I cringed when I renewed my membeship because the NRA "settled" for that "deal".

 

[MoparMan]

I understand the other's point of view, but to me, disarming everyone in an area because it's "hot" isn't necessarily necessary. Not in my mind. I mean, are they doing that in Iraq? Do they disarm all civilians even the ones they know are on our side just because the area is "hot"?

YES! There you dont know who's your enemy and comrade. The only people you can trust are wearing the uniform saying U.S. and even then some of them turn. People join their police force just so they can get close to us and bait us in some ambush or suicide bomb us.

 

[SavageEagle]

YES! There you dont know who's your enemy and comrade. The only people you can trust are wearing the uniform saying U.S. and even then some of them turn. People join their police force just so they can get close to us and bait us in some ambush or suicide bomb us.

Good point. But that hasn't happened here that I know of, and from what I do know about Katrina, it was the looters and criminals shooting at those trying to help.

I remember a story about a neighborhood that had set up roadblocks on their street and had armed guards to keep their families safe. The military came through and deemed it unnecessary and either the military or the PD had confiscated their guns rendering the neighborhood defenseless.

Stories like that are the things that concern me most. I do see your point, but I still think that unless you know they are the enemy you shouldn't violate their rights. Not in America, not in a place that is not a war zone. Martial Law doesn't constitute a war zone. Although it may seem like it.

 

[MoparMan]

Lets just hope neither one of us will have to deal with this again espescially in a larger scale.

 

[SavageEagle]

For my kids' sake, I pray with you that they never experiance anything like it. Unfortunately, I don't share everyone's optimism that it won't happen and much worse. Call it paranoia, call it what you will. I call it preparedness and doing my duty as a citizen to make sure it doesn't happen. Which is why I do what I can to support the Tea Party Patriots across the Country pushing for government reform.

 

[HICKMAN]

I hope in all this NO ONE thinks I supported confiscating arms from citizens.

Nagan and Chief Warren should both being doing time IMHO.

 

[SavageEagle]

Hickman, I know better.

IMNSHO, they should be hanged for all the people they killed. Especially those they killed in the dome.

 

[WWIIIDefender]

The problems we saw in NO was why the smart people came up with Posse comitatus. America is well armed so when ever your going to put the military in the mix there will be problems. That is why they should not be used. I news does do atleast one thing right, they give advanced warnings to people letting them know that they need to evacuate. If they don't evac then to bad so sad they used poor judgment. Katrina filled up the entire gulf coast and still people stayed. Any branch or service should never confiscate guns from american citizens, it is against the constitution. Even in extreme casses and the military is taking fire like some people said then they should use the rules of engagment and fire back. Nobody was taking fire when they were confiscating guns if they were a war would have broken out. It happened once it will happen again and unfortunetly there are just enough people in the military that believe confiscation is ok to conform the masses. There are a lot of military here can anyone give me an example of an unlawful order that they stood up to and did not follow. God help us during the next crisses which is probably rapidly approaching us aka Swine flu

 

[raiven]

i ran across this today. lets see who draws the line in the sand for right or wrong side.
August 10, 2009

Government Prepares for “unwillingness to follow government orders”

Posted by Karen De Coster on August 10, 2009 08:47 AM
The International Swine Flu Conference is being held in Washington D.C. next week, just two weeks after the conference on weight control that I wrote about last week. Here’s a summary of it:

Top leaders and key decision-makers of major companies representing a broad range of industries will meet with distinguished scientists, public health officials, law enforcers, first responders, and other experts to discuss pandemic prevention, preparedness, response and recovery at the 1st International Swine Flu Summit.
​

Read the agenda for the breakout sessions, especially the session on “psychological issues” (Session #2) and the topic heading: “Unwillingness to follow government orders.” Also note session #6, which includes “Control and diffuse social unrest & public disorder” and “Isolate prisons and other facilities.”

Reddit • Digg this • Stumble It • Shout It • Add to Mixx • Discuss on Newsvine

« Previous: Congratulations to Peter Schiff | LRC Home | LRC Blog | Next: Does the US Run the Iranian Opposition? »​

Government Prepares for “unwillingness to follow government orders” LewRockwell.com Blog

 

[SavageEagle]

Whelp.... There's your reason for why they're hiring the Internment/Resettlement" Specialists....

 

[Zoub]

WOW! Well my friend.... I love you too! Come here and give me a BIIIIIIG hug!!!!! You sound as if you need some lovin's! Let little ol Ryan make everything all better for you!

Your intelect is astounding, I kept it simple for you. Of course you didn't answer my question either? Did you ever go downtown?

I know you think you some how provoke deep thought but you generally produce a lot of conflict and a load of Sh**. You NEVER learn from anything anyone tells you and you never find middle ground, just bang the same drum over and over.

SE you won't like this:

First, don't worry about your kids remembering you shooting a soldier or cop, seeing you shot to pieces right after is what will haunt them. You may take the first shot, which I personally doubt, but if you do it will be suicide by Soldier or Cop. You would have commited murder and he/she won't be knocking on your door alone. So your fantasy Patriot shootout will never happen but if it does, professionals will finish you off quick and dirty like a chicken bone in a dog pack. No one with ihalf a brain plans for a fight like that. Study E&E, it may save your kids life some day.

Second, your typical tone and painting with broad strokes matches that of Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden. Since they likely didn't teach this in school, Tommy was the puppetmaster behind Jane. I speak from experience since I was the kid of a "Baby Burner" and dealt with it MANY many times in many places, including Jane and Tom.

You mirror their tone and tenor perfectly and I mean that. Apologizing after you do it is as phony as it gets because you always do it. You don't learn and you don't stop.

If you want to find corruption, LA is the best place to start, no matter what profession. The daily news in NOLA starts with graft, corruption and murder. But when the SHTF and YOUR family calls 911 it is a cop that will save your kids. When the SHTF and your family needs real assistance it is likely the National Guard will bring it even in NOLA.

As for the "administrative screw up" prison is full of innocent people. Am I reading too much into that statement? If you use it like a shield, expect to get called on it, but I don't expect any answers from you.

 

[Zoub]

Hickman, I know better.

IMNSHO, they should be hanged for all the people they killed. Especially those they killed in the dome.

By who? You?

When is the last time YOU visited the dome? Last year I sat 20+ stories above it every day, looking down on it from my office window.

Anyone who would go to that area of town, to that location and not even have their insulin with them just killed themselves. Gangs did the killing and raping. Your logic just runs where you want it too. If you believe in being prepped then the Dome is a none issue. If you place your life in the hands of Govt you are an expendable resource. Is anyone here surprised by that?

If you are going to live 8' below sea level you better be ready. Many lives were saved by men who walked in or jumped out of helicopters into a cess pool to do so. I know a few of them.

Good or bad Soldiers and Cops need to follow orders to uphold society in general. If they ever find themselves at the edgo of right and wrong a higher power will guide them. It is silly to debate it to death. What would you do? Have you ever had to choose between right and the larger group? It is a difficult choice and it comes down to how you were raised.

 

[SavageEagle]

Ignorance really must be bliss isn't it?

 

[techres]

Good or bad Soldiers and Cops need to follow orders to uphold society in general. If they ever find themselves at the edgo of right and wrong a higher power will guide them. It is silly to debate it to death. What would you do? Have you ever had to choose between right and the larger group? It is a difficult choice and it comes down to how you were raised.

Your tactical assessment of what happens when a person fires on the military or police is on. That almost always ends badly for everyone involved.

But I am interested in the comments above. You put your faith in the upbringing of the individual soldier and in the Almighty above. I cannot find fault in either. You are dead on there.

But is there a place for continued testing, debate, consideration of a person's choices. In the military, IIRC, the "illegal orders" class used "what if" scenarios to work out what is an is not a specific order and it's legality. Is that not the same thing we can do here to some extent? I know it is not easy to do when the volume keeps getting cranked up to 11, but what if we kept it down to 3? Is that discussion possible, or useful? Can adults be swayed in their positions or think out what the would and would not do? Or is that thinking about what you would not do a trap that keeps you from being able to do your current work?

And, yes, some people here have dreams about the day of decision and what could possibly happen. For some those dreams are nightmares, for others they are lazy day dreams. In either case, I don't really care.

What I am interested in is what we can do now, to avoid any such decision/decisions from ever having to be made.

And I do appreciate those who put their lives at risk for me and mine. Your hard work is appreciated, and your safety is prayed for.

 

[SavageEagle]

Your tactical assessment of what happens when a person fires on the military or police is on. That almost always ends badly for everyone involved. Very true, but if you mean to say that you wouldn't defend yourself against foriegn troops in you're own home and would just let them take you prisoner then, to me, death would be welcome then being captured and tortured. I don't believe I ever said anything about shooting our own troops or LEOs unless they happen to be doing evil. Would you not defend yourself against evil? Or would you just submit and pray that God has mercy on you?

But I am interested in the comments above. You put your faith in the upbringing of the individual soldier and in the Almighty above. I cannot find fault in either. You are dead on there.

But is there a place for continued testing, debate, consideration of a person's choices. In the military, IIRC, the "illegal orders" class used "what if" scenarios to work out what is an is not a specific order and it's legality. Is that not the same thing we can do here to some extent? I know it is not easy to do when the volume keeps getting cranked up to 11, but what if we kept it down to 3? Is that discussion possible, or useful? Can adults be swayed in their positions or think out what the would and would not do? Or is that thinking about what you would not do a trap that keeps you from being able to do your current work?

And, yes, some people here have dreams about the day of decision and what could possibly happen. For some those dreams are nightmares, for others they are lazy day dreams. In either case, I don't really care. Those are very much so nightmares, but why not be prepared if those nightmares ever become reality. A plane could fail after take off and crash into my neighborhood very easily. I don't wish it to happen, but I am prepared if it does happen and I have the chance to react. I was there when the C130 hit the Drury Inn in Evansville. There's only so much you can do, but being prepared the best you can isn't a bad thing is it?

What I am interested in is what we can do now, to avoid any such decision/decisions from ever having to be made. Join those like me who are taking our case to our reps live and in person. Start at your local government (City Hall) and work your way up. Join us in the Tea Parties and be proud to call yourself a "low-level domestic terrorist" because you aren't like the sheeple and actually stand up for your rights. All of your rights.

And I do appreciate those who put their lives at risk for me and mine. Your hard work is appreciated, and your safety is prayed for.

I second this appreciation and will continue to pray for all the God fearing men and women who work to keep us all safe. Here and Abroad.

What I won't do is support those who would disarm Americans because my mere owning a gun frightens you. I won't support those who would blindly follow orders because they think they have no choice or they can't recognize an illegal order. I won't support those who think that the Constitution doesn't apply to them because of their position, rank, or status.

I also won't support an imbicle(zoub) who bashes me only to say some of the very things I was saying in the first place.