Any union guys in here?

[Jaybird1980]

Do you have a better answer? It's uncomfortable for most of us to entertain that idea. The problem is that the good job and financial security we cling to may be our undoing, and then it's all gone anyway.

If it comes down to that to save us then we are already screwed, and we may already be.

I think term limits and removing financial influence from all elected positions is where we need to start.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I had wondered if I had made that comment a little bit hard to understand...

To your analogy about rigged elections: Some state legislatures have and are taking steps to take back their constitutional authority over state elections. It will be slow, but it is making some progress.

To bring the analogy back to the unions: I don't see union members taking back their unions. I just see "keep your head down" and resignation to the fact that union members will continue to financially support organizations that fund and campaign for political views the general membership seems to hate. I don't get it... The old members in particular have had DECADES to do something to make things better for generations to follow...and yet they did nothing. The advice now is "keep your head down"...good for the old guys I suppose...it won't be their problem much longer...

The keep your head down is because he's an apprentice. He doesn't have enough time or seniority to influence anything.

 

[churchmouse]

I had wondered if I had made that comment a little bit hard to understand...

To your analogy about rigged elections: Some state legislatures have and are taking steps to take back their constitutional authority over state elections. It will be slow, but it is making some progress.

To bring the analogy back to the unions: I don't see union members taking back their unions. I just see "keep your head down" and resignation to the fact that union members will continue to financially support organizations that fund and campaign for political views the general membership seems to hate. I don't get it... The old members in particular have had DECADES to do something to make things better for generations to follow...and yet they did nothing. The advice now is "keep your head down"...good for the old guys I suppose...it won't be their problem much longer...

Thanks for the clarification.
As to my keep your head down it is the old guard that’s the problem. The plumbers pretty much ran the meetings etc to the point that to stay and argue would get close to physical. They were dyed in the wild left leaning douche bags. So I stopped going.
Once you are labeled or black balled getting the work is near impossible. We were a hiring hall. The plumbers and fitters sat the bench until called out to a job. The service side kept themselves busy as we were responsible to our customers and that base. The fitters did not understand this. There was tension between the ranks. I worked both books due to my welding certs so I saw it all.
The keep your head down advise fits that situation. Sadly.

 

[churchmouse]

If it comes down to that to save us then we are already screwed, and we may already be.

I think term limits and removing financial influence from all elected positions is where we need to start.

Good luck my friend. It is all about the money and influence.

 

[churchmouse]

The keep your head down is because he's an apprentice. He doesn't have enough time or seniority to influence anything.

Bingo.
And to keep his position much booty has to be kissed.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Good luck my friend. It is all about the money and influence.

Oh I don't think that's what is going to happen, that's just what I think needs to happen.

 

[buckwacker]

If it comes down to that to save us then we are already screwed, and we may already be.

I think term limits and removing financial influence from all elected positions is where we need to start.

We need to focus on changing minds rather than changing politicians. Changing minds will change the politicians. Or union leadership, eventually.

 

[Dante1983]

If it comes down to that to save us then we are already screwed, and we may already be.

I think term limits and removing financial influence from all elected positions is where we need to start.

Have you heard of the convention of states project? Term limits is one of their goals

 

[edporch]

I had a lifelong friend who passed away recently who was in the United Steel Workers for several years.
He used to tell me about going to meetings and the leaders running the meetings were all blindly for the Democrats, and INSISTED that the members all be too.

BUT WHEN elections came in November, how the union said to vote had ZERO bearing on how my friend voted.
I've known many people in unions through the years, and the ones who are able to think for themselves don't let the union have any bearing on how they vote.

He said in union meetings, they'd say things that were 100% Democrat lies and if anybody tried to point out that what they said wasn't true, or in ANY way questioned the union line, they'd be shouted down so the low information members would only hear what the Democrat union leaders wanted them to hear.
There was NEVER any free exchange of ideas, JUST shut up and vote Democrat.

 

[04FXSTS]

To repeat myself I am not pro or against unions and have worked union and non-union jobs. Once I worked in a small electrical repair shop that was a non-union s*** hole. One of the other workers got the local Electrical workers union come and try to organize. When the vote finally came about it was 8 to one against. I would never admit it but I was the only vote for the union, even the guy that started it voted no.
The last job I had was a medium size company, family owned and non-union. It was not perfect, they did keep wages a bit lower than I think they should have been. They did have great benifits and steady employment while honoring seinority. Someone got into unionizing this place and somehow got everyone's address and sent reps to everyone's home. I did not care for this tactic and run them off my property.
One thing you hear from people that are non-union is "unions just protect the useless employees that should be fired." I remember an example of that happening. An employee in my department was lazy and all around worthless and a liar. I don't remember why the company wanted to fire him, this was in the late 1970's. He ended up getting fired and most people that worked with him didn't miss him.
The president of the local union was explaining to the company why they could not fire him. Head company man asked president "How can you sit there and defend this guy, everyone knows he should be fired?" The best answer I have ever heard on this. "You people caused this problem. I would never hired him with his prior work record and then you did not get rid of him in his 90 day probation period. He crewed up enough then you should have fired him and I would not have been involved in those 90 days. Now you want to fire him but it is my job to do my best to save his job and that is what I will do." They did not fire him that time but he finally got fired over something else. Whenever someone brings up the union protecting worthless employees I tell this story. Jim.

 

[Twangbanger]

...An employee in my department was lazy and all around worthless and a liar. I don't remember why the company wanted to fire him... The president of the local union was explaining to the company why they could not fire him. Head company man asked president "How can you sit there and defend this guy, everyone knows he should be fired?" The best answer I have ever heard on this. "You people caused this problem. I would never hired him with his prior work record and then you did not get rid of him in his 90 day probation period. He crewed up enough then you should have fired him and I would not have been involved in those 90 days. Now you want to fire him but it is my job to do my best to save his job and that is what I will do."

Some Elected Union officials use the discipline/grievance process as a way of buying votes, and the above sounds like one of them. When they "get somebody off" of bad behavior, they know they have just earned a "vote for life." It's not hard to see why they support Democrats, because they operate just like them. They like the power and reduced workload ("today I'm doing Union Business") they get by being an elected official, that kind of vote-buying is an example of what they'll do to maintain it.

 

[bwframe]