Another new "rule" incoming? No more private sales without a ffl involved?

[Ingomike]

You do realize, don't you, that there is zero enforcement capability for this? There are more than 400 million firearms in circulation in private ownership, with zero provenance. Only firearms purchased through FFLs, after this would take effect, could the government even possibly prove that a private transfer took place without an FFL.

What will actually be lost is the ability to market or find them conveniently and from a broad area…

 

[11infantryb]

You do realize, don't you, that there is zero enforcement capability for this? There are more than 400 million firearms in circulation in private ownership, with zero provenance. Only firearms purchased through FFLs, after this would take effect, could the government even possibly prove that a private transfer took place without an FFL.

They could subpoena Armlist, Tacswap, INGO, etc. for all their records and messaging and create a list that way. If I recall they did that with the folks that made the polymer 80 frames. The feds got a warrant and seized all the transactions from the HQ was the story I read of people who bought jigs with frames. How that wasn't illegal beats me.

 

[bwframe]

Enforcement or lack of, of whatever this is only goes so far.

This kind of "law" is not the kind of thing that your door gets kicked in for. It's the kind of thing they add to the list, when they are building a case against one of us who had to use a lethal weapon for self defense. It comes from the same crowd who "discovered an arsenal," when investigating someone they want to be perceived as bad.

We are back to the libs/anti's playing the long game here also. This "unenforceable law" may not effect us at all. It's our kids and grandkids, who we have raised to be honest and law abiding, who will be in the tough spot of being in possession of "illegal, unregistered guns."

If this is allowed to happen, a generation or two down the road will have nothing to fight with against tyrannical government overreach, eliminating the Second Amendment or neutering it to mean nothing.

 

[Ark]

Enforcement or lack of, of whatever this is only goes so far.

This kind of "law" is not the kind of thing that your door gets kicked in for. It's the kind of thing they add to the list, when they are building a case against one of us who had to use a lethal weapon for self defense. It comes from the same crowd who "discovered an arsenal," when investigating someone they want to be perceived as bad.

We are back to the libs/anti's playing the long game here also. This "unenforceable law" may not effect us at all. It's our kids and grandkids, who we have raised to be honest and law abiding, who will be in the tough spot of being in possession of "illegal, unregistered guns."

If this is allowed to happen, a generation or two down the road will have nothing to fight with against tyrannical government overreach, eliminating the Second Amendment or neutering it to mean nothing.

Just look how fast certain people in this thread got normalized into "nobody should have a gun without a background check".

 

[Mgderf]

Just look how fast certain people in this thread got normalized into "nobody should have a gun without a background check".

What, two?
There's one (or two) in every crowd.

 

[Ark]

What, two?
There's one (or two) in every crowd.

I'll be the first to admit I thought exactly that way back when I was dumb and brainwashed.

I hadn't been alive back before background checks and Brady. I had no living memory of guns without NICS checks. It was just common sense, of course you need a background check to have a gun, guns are dangerous! We don't want BAD PEOPLE having guns!

I had to be educated later in life, outside the school and university system, to figure it out.

 

[Mgderf]

I'll be the first to admit I thought exactly that way back when I was dumb and brainwashed.

I hadn't been alive back before background checks and Brady. I had no living memory of guns without NICS checks. It was just common sense, of course you need a background check to have a gun, guns are dangerous! We don't want BAD PEOPLE having guns!

I had to be educated later in life, outside the school and university system, to figure it out.

Welcome to the real world.

 

[KLB]

I'll be the first to admit I thought exactly that way back when I was dumb and brainwashed.

I hadn't been alive back before background checks and Brady. I had no living memory of guns without NICS checks. It was just common sense, of course you need a background check to have a gun, guns are dangerous! We don't want BAD PEOPLE having guns!

I had to be educated later in life, outside the school and university system, to figure it out.

It all sounds so logical. You have to be open minded and really think through the logic to see how futile the whole thing is. It is a total failure at doing what it is purported to do.

 

[Ark]

It all sounds so logical. You have to be open minded and really think through the logic to see how futile the whole thing is. It is a total failure at doing what it is purported to do.

100%. Educated in the history of what came before and why things were done, too. Gun law actually does get pretty technical, not as much as health policy but most people have almost zero functional knowledge of what laws we have today, what they actually do, and when they were passed. And they're kept that way, too, because support for gun control is highest when information is lowest.

I was chicken before egg, man. I didn't buy guns because I got educated, I got educated after I bought guns. Gun ownership changed the entire trajectory of my life.

 

[KLB]

I was chicken before egg, man. I didn't buy guns because I got educated, I got educated after I bought guns. Gun ownership changed the entire trajectory of my life.

I was close to the same. Although it was inheriting a gun that started me down the path.

 

[Combat_turtle]

The above post is a good point I had not really considered before. It reminds me of the guy's shirt in Happy Gilmore- "guns don't kill people-i kill people" you just can't make shirts like ya used to...

As a gun store owner I think I would try to incentivize purchasing from me but wouldn't punish a transferee financially unless they were habitual. After about the third transfer where they bought a gun I had or could get, I'd say c'mon man, buy from me I'll give you a discount.

my only thing with that is sometimes stores cant match prices of places like buds. I have my regular store like most of us do, and I always tell him what im looking for and get his price on it. But when its sometimes 50-100 difference im going to go with online and pay a transfer.

 

[Combat_turtle]

You are totally correct, at this time Indiana law doesn't require any documentation to sell a firearm via private sale. That's the only reason I made my original comment, because there is no way of knowing who you are selling to.

That's why ill usually type up a stupid simple bill of sale. It is just "I _____ sell this gun (Make, Model, SN) to _______". I sign they sign then I'm covered. If they lie, if they use it in a crime, ext i have proof i sold it and who i sold it to. If you're legally now allowed to own a firearm you're well aware of that fact, and I promise you they're still buying guns left right and center. I protect myself and after that its in gods hands.

 

[Ingomike]

my only thing with that is sometimes stores cant match prices of places like buds. I have my regular store like most of us do, and I always tell him what im looking for and get his price on it. But when its sometimes 50-100 difference im going to go with online and pay a transfer.

Freedom is not free…

 

[Ingomike]

That's why I’ll usually type up a stupid simple bill of sale. It is just "I _____ sell this gun (Make, Model, SN) to _______". I sign they sign then I'm covered. If they lie, if they use it in a crime, ext i have proof i sold it and who i sold it to. If you're legally now allowed to own a firearm you're well aware of that fact, and I promise you they're still buying guns left right and center. I protect myself and after that it’s in gods hands.

Not participating in your imaginary games...

 

[daddyusmaximus]

The powers that be can tell the atf to do what ever they want. The end result will be the same as all this other unlawful crap.
The atf is a law enforcement agency, NOT the governing body of Congress that actually has the legal right to make, and pass law.

(even though a lot of the ones they already have passed... are unconstitutional)

 

[11infantryb]

That's why ill usually type up a stupid simple bill of sale. It is just "I _____ sell this gun (Make, Model, SN) to _______". I sign they sign then I'm covered. If they lie, if they use it in a crime, ext i have proof i sold it and who i sold it to. If you're legally now allowed to own a firearm you're well aware of that fact, and I promise you they're still buying guns left right and center. I protect myself and after that its in gods hands.

That is a good technique. It's simple and helps you watch your back. I've known a couple guys that have had a knock on their door (gun was stolen or sold to the wrong person) and some of these folks don't realize they're going to have to answer why they sold to an unauthorized person. Stating 1 liners from the second amendment isn't going to amuse the detective nor do they realize how liable works.

 

[cbhausen]

That is a good technique. It's simple and helps you watch your back. I've known a couple guys that have had a knock on their door (gun was stolen or sold to the wrong person) and some of these folks don't realize they're going to have to answer why they sold to an unauthorized person. Stating 1 liners from the second amendment isn't going to amuse the detective nor do they realize how liable works.

Have you actually read and do you actually understand Indiana code regarding private sales? You’re sounding like the antis best friend here.

 

[cbhausen]

If Brandon can screw something up, he will certainly do it. That’s going to end up costing an extra $75-$100 per transaction. When is it going into affect?

Hopefully NEVER

 

[Combat_turtle]

Have you actually read and do you actually understand Indiana code regarding private sales? You’re sounding like the antis best friend here.

Its not that, its a quick simple way for me to say I'm not responsible for what that gun was used for and goodbye. Being investigated for a firearm that was linked to you in the commission of a crime can easily have the rest of your guns "held" by the police. I'm not saying I send these to the police or anything, its held simply to protect me from having to go through all that crap because I sold a gun to someone who decided to kill someone else. I enjoy my guns, and freedom, and don't enjoy them being taken for investigation. Even if I'm let go you're talking easily weeks or months that I could be held, that my guns could be held. Avoiding that with a simple paper saying i sold it on this date to this person saves ALL that.

I'm as pro 2A as anyone, but I'm fully aware that in this day and age there's thousands of police, judges, prosecutors, and lawyers who would like to make a name by getting someone charged in a case like this. I don't plan to be the fodder.

 

[bwframe]

Its not that, its a quick simple way for me to say I'm not responsible for what that gun was used for and goodbye. Being investigated for a firearm that was linked to you in the commission of a crime can easily have the rest of your guns "held" by the police. I'm not saying I send these to the police or anything, its held simply to protect me from having to go through all that crap because I sold a gun to someone who decided to kill someone else. I enjoy my guns, and freedom, and don't enjoy them being taken for investigation. Even if I'm let go you're talking easily weeks or months that I could be held, that my guns could be held. Avoiding that with a simple paper saying i sold it on this date to this person saves ALL that.

I'm as pro 2A as anyone, but I'm fully aware that in this day and age there's thousands of police, judges, prosecutors, and lawyers who would like to make a name by getting someone charged in a case like this. I don't plan to be the fodder.

You very likely won't be selling anything to me. I have no need for extra paperwork in a legal private sale. If I wanted a documented purchase, I'd go to an FFL.

Never say never, because I could certainly be convinced to purchase your item and fill out your papers for say...
...half the item's value?

One thing is for sure. You wouldn't want to spring the added unnecessary paperwork on someone at the place where you meet for the trade. You need to specify your bill of sale requirement in your for sale add.