An alternate look at handgun stopping power

[crispy]

In the scientific world when someone does research and presents a study on their findings the appropriate way to refute it is to present a study of your own.

You got one?

 

[crispy]

What's worthless about it? Can you show the data points to be in error? Do you think he left out all those great .44 Magnum one shot kills to purposely skew the data? The conclusions were subjective AND CLEARLY LABELED AS SUCH. The rest of the data was just that.

To demean someone else's work because it didn't support your position, and use the term "worthless" is pretty pathetic.

I often hear Mall Ninjas justify their choice of .45 auto by using the mythical "meth addict" that doesn't stop coming. So obviously they need "bigger holes" to maximize bleed out.

Unfortunately for them, this study shows that crazed addict attacks (or zombies) don't make up a sizable percentage of shootings. Rather most shootees are physically incapacitated by the first shot (of whatever caliber) or they really just don't want to be shot again, regardless of the size of the bullet.

 

[warangelcometh]

Good info- thanks.
SHOT PLACEMENT BABY !

 

[need4speed255]

I just read a study on the myth of stopping power as well. Here is the link to that study:

Bayou Renaissance Man: The myth of handgun "stopping power": Part 1 of 3

It pretty much says the same thing that the OP stated. There are three parts to the write up.

 

[INyooper]

Nothing about stopping power, I carry a 45ACP 'cuz I bought me a Glock 30 on my 45th birthday ...I wasn't shootin' handguns when I was nine. Tho' I can hardly wait 'til I turn 50!!!

You laugh but, according to the article, it's as good a reason as any!

FWIW, don't think I'll ever be old enough for a 357.

 

[canamscott]

This is one of the best compilations of statistical analysis I have seen. It definitely calls us to question our assumptions. I would be curious to read someone else's compilation of data and see if this study is replicated.

Scott

 

[Tombs]

What ever is the most controllable for you to put multiple shots on target quickly with, beyond your normal "comfortable" range.

If it takes a 22lr to do that, so be it. The only thing I really look at closely and actually consider is the penetration depth. If it can't make it to 10" I don't feel comfortable with it.

That said, heavy for caliber and maximum expansion will win the day when it comes to handguns. 100-200fps isn't going to be very noticeable to what ever you shoot. 10mm pushing 200gr bullets is my personal preference, because of the extremely long hornady XTP bullet. Cook it off super sonic and you really have a good hunting and defensive load all in one, it may seem like overkill but out of my gun it's more controllable than most 40s I've shot.

That said, glock needs to make a 38 super.

 

[Audie Murphy]

That is some good reading there. Awesome information.

 

[mrortega]

If the .40 is good enough for the FBI it's good enough for me. I don't remember who said it but any caliber is good for SD as long as it starts with a "4".

 

[redneckmedic]

tag

 

[shooter1054]

The bigest, badest, most technologicaly advanced bullet doesn't do you a damned bit of good if you can't hit your target. A 22 between the eyes, beats a 45 that goes in the wall. That said, I always go with a 40. or a 357.

 

[Jeremy1066]

In the scientific world when someone does research and presents a study on their findings the appropriate way to refute it is to present a study of your own.

You got one?

a little testy, aren't we?? Did you even read my post? If you did, read it again! I stated that the best gun for a person to carry is the the gun they shoot the best. The author himself states multiple times that the study is skewed! It's not proof of any kind. I didn't refute his study or his findings. No I don't "have a study" cause, well, I have a life and a job. My study involves groundhogs that get mad when you shoot them with a 9mm and fly apart in several pieces when I shoot them with a hot 10mm. That's my study, and therfor is the core of my opinion!

 

[686 Shooter]

A late friend of mine owned several automatic weapons, he claimed the most "deadly" was a .22, actually a full auto 10/22 with an integrated suppresor, he said it could be held in the same spot until the magaziine was empty. He also carried a NAA Guardian in his front pocket, he said it was a great gun to get close an personal with, several rounds up under the rib cage will stop almost anyone. I completley agree that size can be overcome by disipline and shot placement.

 

[BlueEagle]

Basically what I'm reading into this.....is carry an SBR or a super-shorty in 12ga, (if going for concealment,) or a full sized rifle or shotgun if you're OC'ing. That'd give you the most advantage. But we all already knew that, right?

Personally, I have to agree with the guy. I think that a large percentage of people will flee at the sight of a gun coming their way, and that the shot is secondary. Nobody WANTS to be shot, so unless they have a very strong and personal motive for coming after you, they'll probably want to go for an easier target. Operating under that mentality, (which is just an assumption for the sake of this argument,) I have to agree with the author; shooting MOST people, pretty much anywhere, with pretty much anything, will PROBABLY get them to leave you alone.

 

[crispy]

a little testy, aren't we?? Did you even read my post?

Worthless article.

I did.

 

[Rob377]

 

[SixSigmaLarry]

Rob, that pic was great!

About the article, it was interesting. Thanks for the link.

I think as so many others have said in this thread, discipline and accuracy mean more than caliber size. A miss is a miss, no matter what bullet you are using. Practice, practice, and when you think you got it right, keep practicing.

 

[crispy]

I'm surprised he didn't have a .357 Sig shooter. The recipient would be shown holding his ears with blood coming out of them...

 

[Rob377]

I'm surprised he didn't have a .357 Sig shooter. The recipient would be shown holding his ears with blood coming out of them...

I'd give ya rep, but it won't let me!!


EDIT TO ADD

[/IMG]

 

[kingnereli]

What's worthless about it? Can you show the data points to be in error? Do you think he left out all those great .44 Magnum one shot kills to purposely skew the data? The conclusions were subjective AND CLEARLY LABELED AS SUCH. The rest of the data was just that.

The fact that the guy said his data was skewed places it nicely under the definition of worthless. There aren't enough data points to reach a definitive conclusion (which is why he had to offer a subjective one, by the way), operating off of percentages is difficult when the totals are so different.

To demean someone else's work because it didn't support your position, and use the term "worthless" is pretty pathetic.

To support an admittedly skewed "study" with such ire because it supports your position is quite pathetic.

I often hear Mall Ninjas justify their choice of .45 auto by using the mythical "meth addict" that doesn't stop coming. So obviously they need "bigger holes" to maximize bleed out.

Okay. If you want to use generalizations I often hear low drag operators talk about how they want a 9mm because it holds more ammo and their shot placement is always perfect anyway.

Regardless of whether or not the target is a meth addict, zombie or a chipmunk the bigger hole has the same effect compared to a smaller hole.

Unfortunately for them, this study shows that crazed addict attacks (or zombies) don't make up a sizable percentage of shootings. Rather most shootees are physically incapacitated by the first shot (of whatever caliber) or they really just don't want to be shot again, regardless of the size of the bullet.

It's your choice to rely on physiological stops rather than wound effectiveness. I won't trust such foolishness. I will trust that my training is up to par, that I have a reliable, fighting sized weapon and that I carry a caliber that will best stop a determined attacker.