about 10 years ago

[ThrottleJockey]

Your all over the place, 1st you hate us, then you want to pay us like rock stars if we are good at our jobs. You need to roll that window down and get some air bub.

U.S. Population 300,000,000 legal residence, 200,000,000 illegals= roughly 500,000,000
Firefighters career about 275,000, volunteers about 875,000 boy these a*&holes are really contributing to this nations debt problems. I guess that means i'm responsible for pulling about 1800 idiots smoking in bed out of there house every year. And occasionally a couple of massive truck drivers who have to be removed from there trucks for various reasons (massive heart attack while eating cheetos, txting while driving and smoking 5 or 6 four wheelers, or just plain falling asleep and taking out the local church bus, just to name a few).
Truck drivers- about 4.5 million.

Where did I ever even insinuate that I hate cops? I have maintained one opinion and one only. My position on this has not varied for like...years....I don't need any air, but I think someone needs a reading comp. class or a chill pill. What I've offered is a solution to everyones problem, good leos/teachers/firefighters get paid WAY better and the bad ones go away so people can respect and be proud of the ones left.

 

[IndyGunworks]

First, not all fireman are on a private pension. When i got hired onto warren township fire department, i paid social security just the same as everyone else. MANY departments are still this way.

Second, i didnt not become a fireman entirely for my own self gain. I watched the towers fall taking with it all those men that ran into it to try and get people out. thats when i decided that they were the true hero's of this country and i idolized them and wanted to be like them so i could prove to myself that i had what it takes to run INTO harms way to help the person incapable from running from it. its also why i joined the military, into the comat arms and did 3 tours of duty.

third, once MY portion that i pay into the pension is taken out, along w/ taxes and everything else i get around 1000 every two weeks. thats around 26000 dollars a year after taxes. i work at LEAST 5 24 hour shifts in a pay period. thats 60 hours a week. do the math, its right around 16 or 17 dollars an hour. not the best pay for someone who is in a skilled trade and puts their lives on the line everytime they go to work. now i dont have a fire EVERY shift but i have them more often than not, and there is ALWAYS something that can kill me or seriosly hurt me evertime i come to work.

because of all of this i work a second job like so many others. normally around 20 hours a week. so now i am working 80 hours a week and probably brining home around 36000 a year after taxes. my second job i pay social security contributing to everyone elses pension as well.

before the new pension rules it was VERY common for someone to retire from the fire department early requiring the expenses of new recruits more often normally a recruit class every year. w/ those guys leaving went ALOT of knowledge with them. with the new stuff we have a class every couple of years and havent had a class in 4 years now and the experience on the job is amazing. i learn from the old guys EVERY time that bell goes off.

My salary is maxed out, it will go up 1percent per year unless we get a contractual raise which we are not scheduled to get much of anything the next 4 years.

I would love to be able to find a higher paying job w/ less or at least better hours (its hard on my family for me to be gone for 24 hours then come home just to have to leave for work after i shower) BUT the job is enjoyable because i love every person i work with and would give my life for them, as they would for me, and quitting would be turning my back on them. i also wouldnt want to leave this job because i get HUGE satisfaction when someones house is on fire and i am able to bring them their jewelry box, or family photo right before the house gets to out of control and they loose everything. or to have that 50 something trucker that pulls over to the side of the road having a massive heat attack and is legally dead when we get there but do CPR and get a thank you card from him a week later, knowing we gave his family just a bit more time w/ him, possibly a lot more time. or when we get that run for a child that has fallen into the pool and we pull them out and resesitate them and they are able to tell their mommy that they love them on the way to the hospital. THOSE are the reason i do the job, not for the money.

i understand some of the points that the other side of the fence is making, but i also feel that the private pension is one of the small perks that makes me want to keep this job and give it my all every single day i come to work. take care of the hand that feeds you, take care of the god that loves you, and take care of those who take care of you. if you want to get an inside view of what we do for so little pay, talk to HQ and ask do do a ride along at a place like station 20 or 27 but dont plan on sleeping because its a rare occurance to not wake up 3 or 4 times throughout the night, and when you wake up, you still got another job to go to.

my flame suit is on, and while i see both sides, i am partial to ALL civil servants getting the gratitude they deserve for the sacrifices they make that nobody even knows about. (not askin for it for myself but more for those who have already given the ultimate sacrifice.)

 

[IndyGunworks]

Yes, privatize. That would be preferable to the current system. Government shouldn't be responsible for anyone's retirement. Its an entitlement program. People should take their own money and put it in their own retirement funds of their choice. Taxpayers' obligations end the moment you get your paycheck. Not for decades into your retirement. Pay people a wage and let the cards fall where they may. The current system is great if you want to see your great country inevitably go bankrupt.

if it were all the way accross the board, i agree with this 100 percent hands down no if ands or buts. its my responsibility to be responsible. if i dont save for retirement, then i shouldnt have the PRIVILAGE of retiring. with that said though, if its not accross the board, i dont disagree w/ adding a few perks to civil service.

 

[wrigleycub]

You guys deserve a good pension. But don't think you're the only one with a dangerous job. As a high voltage electrician the hazards are everywhere. Fall hazards, excavation engulfment, electrocution, percussion and most recently frostbite. You see what I'm getting at and we don't get anything for free. You leo's & firemen keep up the good work but think you're the only ones in danger.

Likewise, you too!

 

[Arthur Dent]

You guys deserve a good pension. But don't think you're the only one with a dangerous job. As a high voltage electrician the hazards are everywhere. Fall hazards, excavation engulfment, electrocution, percussion and most recently frostbite. You see what I'm getting at and we don't get anything for free. You leo's & firemen keep up the good work but think you're the only ones in danger.

Difference is you work for a private company.

 

[danielocean03]

You guys deserve a good pension. But don't think you're the only one with a dangerous job. As a high voltage electrician the hazards are everywhere. Fall hazards, excavation engulfment, electrocution, percussion and most recently frostbite. You see what I'm getting at and we don't get anything for free. You leo's & firemen keep up the good work but think you're the only ones in danger.

I think the primary difference between your chosen occupation and theirs (LEO's and firemen/women) is that they're public servants, who risk their lives for you and yours. You work for a private company, and your risk is for your own personal gain. I'm in the same boat as you, I'm not a public servant, but I don't complain about the risks of my chosen career.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I'm not sure that's TOTALLY true... While I don't doubt the sincerity of their intent, they do get paid - and paid well. So it's not ENTIRELY out of the goodness of their hearts, or their desire for public service. Yes they will risk their lives to save me from a fire or a bad guy or whatever. But one of the guys above will risk it to keep my power on. And some other one will risk it to put food on my table. Just curious as to how the difference is defined?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I think the primary difference between your chosen occupation and theirs (LEO's and firemen/women) is that they're public servants, who risk their lives for you and yours. You work for a private company, and your risk is for your own personal gain. I'm in the same boat as you, I'm not a public servant, but I don't complain about the risks of my chosen career.

While many services are provided by private companies and are just as risky or dangerous as those working for the public, the services they provide are FOR the public. A lineman for a privately owned company is still providing a public service. Where would the "public" be without it's electrical grid? See what I'm getting at? Pay derived from tax dollars does not make one any more of a public servant than the guy that gets his pay from a private company. This attitude of public servants being entitled to better benefits doesn't fly with me and actually serves only to separate the masses and leads to a sense of superiority among those on the public payroll. This is unacceptable.

 

[Arthur Dent]

The difference is most public servants of the LE and FD persuasion are more than likely to leap into action, even when off-duty, when a situation arises that requires their skills.

 

[model67a]

It gets kind of old hearing that LEOs put their lives on the line everyday. It is very rare that they put their lives on the line. Most of the time they are riding around in a car, or pushing paper. The one's who truly put their lives on the line are the troops in the military. The LEOs usually show up to do the paperwork after things have already occurred. The troops are actually there participating in it. This repeated declaration that their lives are being put on the line daily is totally false!!! Sure there is a slight possibility of them losing their life but it is even less than the common man losing his life in an auto accident!!! In fact a lot of them have been losing their life or causing others to lose theirs in recent happenings. The possibility of them being in a life threatening situation is very small and it is made in to a major issue by the unions representing them. Most of them go through their career and never draw their weapon.

 

[danielocean03]

While many services are provided by private companies and are just as risky or dangerous as those working for the public, the services they provide are FOR the public. A lineman for a privately owned company is still providing a public service. Where would the "public" be without it's electrical grid? See what I'm getting at? Pay derived from tax dollars does not make one any more of a public servant than the guy that gets his pay from a private company. This attitude of public servants being entitled to better benefits doesn't fly with me and actually serves only to separate the masses and leads to a sense of superiority among those on the public payroll. This is unacceptable.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Agreed.

 

[IndyGunworks]

This attitude of public servants being entitled to better benefits doesn't fly with me and actually serves only to separate the masses and leads to a sense of superiority among those on the public payroll. This is unacceptable.

that attitude is of the few. i can think of hardly anyone i work with that feels ENTITLED to the perks that we get. they are nice dont get my wrong, but entitled we are not. its the people above us that think that by giving us some better perks the overall of the department is improved. which it is. and just because we dont actually take a risk that may take our lives EVERY day i am at work, doesnt mean that i dont put my boots on every day i report for duty, FULLY prepared to sacrifice my life to save yours, if there is any reason to believe that it can be saved.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Would these type of benefits be paid and saved for while the person in question is on duty? Would they put money into an account, that is then drawn from later?

Or would these fall into the category of benefits that our grandchildren pay for years later?

That, in my mind, is the biggest difference. If you want to pay out benefits, come up with the money - promising benefits that someone else has to pay years from now is ridiculous...

 

[wrigleycub]

It gets kind of old hearing that LEOs put their lives on the line everyday. It is very rare that they put their lives on the line. Most of the time they are riding around in a car, or pushing paper. The one's who truly put their lives on the line are the troops in the military. The LEOs usually show up to do the paperwork after things have already occurred. The troops are actually there participating in it. This repeated declaration that their lives are being put on the line daily is totally false!!! Sure there is a slight possibility of them losing their life but it is even less than the common man losing his life in an auto accident!!! In fact a lot of them have been losing their life or causing others to lose theirs in recent happenings. The possibility of them being in a life threatening situation is very small and it is made in to a major issue by the unions representing them. Most of them go through their career and never draw their weapon.

As Indygunworks stated, you should go to an actual city that has crime and do a ride along. Your opinion might change! But, then again it probably wouldn't.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

That's a GREAT point IG.... It's less of an issue that there's one benefit or not. But if you're going to give a benefit, account for it in the year the cost was incurred. Public or private becomes less of an issue. It then becomes an "apples to apples" comparison.

This makes sense.

 

[wrigleycub]

Would these type of benefits be paid and saved for while the person in question is on duty? Would they put money into an account, that is then drawn from later?

Or would these fall into the category of benefits that our grandchildren pay for years later?

That, in my mind, is the biggest difference. If you want to pay out benefits, come up with the money - promising benefits that someone else has to pay years from now is ridiculous...

I'm fairly certain, but, not 100% that the P&F 77 is fulling funded each year in each public safety depts budgets. As I stated earlier Indiana's pension isn't like california, mass, maine........where the top 3 years of service pay is averaged and that becomes your retirement salary. These are the cadillac deals you here about on the national media. These states also mandate retirement after 20 yrs and allow the member to gain employment with another safety dept to begin a 2nd retirement fund. I agree these are bad.

Indiana works like this, hire max age is 32. After 20 yrs you become vested and if you retire you recieve 50% of your highest pay year at a 1st class private. That mean if I had 20 year today and retire I would recieve a check biweekly for about $700 for the rest of my life. After 20 years it go's up a percentage to year 36. At year 32 your maxed out and you collect only 76% of your highest paid year as a first class private.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Isn't that age discrimination? Just sayin....

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

I'm fairly certain, but, not 100% that the P&F 77 is fulling funded each year in each public safety depts budgets. As I stated earlier Indiana's pension isn't like california, mass, maine........where the top 3 years of service pay is averaged and that becomes your retirement salary. These are the cadillac deals you here about on the national media. These states also mandate retirement after 20 yrs and allow the member to gain employment with another safety dept to begin a 2nd retirement fund. I agree these are bad.

Indiana works like this, hire max age is 32. After 20 yrs you become vested and if you retire you recieve 50% of your highest pay year at a 1st class private. That mean if I had 20 year today and retire I would recieve a check biweekly for about $700 for the rest of my life. After 20 years it go's up a percentage to year 36. At year 32 your maxed out and you collect only 76% of your highest paid year as a first class private.

But... are those retired right now being paid from funds from when they were working for the department...

Or are those retired now, being paid for from the department right now?

Will those working right now, cost future fire department funds?

 

[rooster007]

Alright Folks , here you go I read though this thread ,and I don't believe anyone has mentioned this . Please note firemen/police/teachers what their
retirement funds recieve . Hoosier lottery website.

hoosier lottery - where does the money go

I really have an issue with the teachers pensions being funded by the state tax payers . With working just a little over 180 days per year ,no holidays , no weekends , blah, blah , blah .

OH But Rooster007 don't you care about the chillllllllllldren !

I don't know to many firemen or cops that are not involved with some type of second income generation

I have to pay for my retirement , so should everyone else .