AARs: Mindset Laboratory Dynamic Force-on-Force Scenarios 1-13-13

[esrice]

Ok, I'll start.

This was my 2nd time being in this class, but it was the first time I was involved as a role-player and not as a student. For everything I learned and loved about this class when I was a student, it was equally as rewarding on the 'other side of the gun'.

I'm very curious to hear from the other INGOers who were involved in today's class as students or role-players. Obviously the nature of these courses doesn't lend to talking about specific scenarios, but any shared general impressions or "light bulb" learning moments would be appreciated.

And I won't get into how bummed I am that I couldn't stay for the entire class. I kicked myself all the way back to work.

 

[OneBadV8]

I kicked myself all the way back to work.

I hope you drove around in circles just to prolong the kicking

 

[Turf Doctor]

AAR Dynamic Force on Force

Still trying to process the day, but here is a few things.

Always be aware of your surroundings. Scan where you are.
Shooting is not always the answer to what is happening. Do not shoot first and ask questionds later.
Things are not always what they seem - what happened before you got there.
Moving is one of the best things to do. Put distance between you and situation.
Communication is very important.
Use your head...
Call 911

I will try to add to later.

 

[esrice]

Two additional questions I would like to pose to the students in today's class--

How important do you feel the 'testing' aspect of FoF is? And how has such testing changed your perspective on self defense?

 

[Shay]

I learned that nice people have trouble acting mean.

 

[esrice]

I learned that nice people have trouble acting mean.

Hey I'm working on it. I've been swearing a lot more the past couple days. My wife suggested a neck tattoo. I may join a motorcycle gang just for some inspiration.

Or were you not talking about me?

 

[BravoMike]

esrice, thank your for participating as a role-player today and it is a shame that you couldn't stick around.

Without much organization of my thoughts I'll try to add some of what I learned.

• Running may not be the best option... especially when you did not scan your area. (Running is against the rules in Pleasantville by the way! )

• Even though the outcome in many scenarios was good, I had multiple failure points in each one. I learned from these and did identify one that was reoccurring for me.

• Everyone seemed to handle each scenario differently. Allowing the students to view the CCTV was very helpful.
• Scan, then scan again. Think, then think again. Fighting is a thinking mans game. If you don't think, you might do something stupid to escalate the situation.
• Every situation is different. There was absolutely no way in guessing what was going to happen and Shay did an excellent job making Pleasantville "feel" different each time. There may be things happening that one may have never thought about before and those "ah ha" moments are priceless.

In response to esrice's two questions.


1. Very important. You can fantasize all day long on how you think you would perform in a situation where you are under stress and carrying a gun, but you don't know until you have "tested" yourself. Everyone is going to have failure points with this training and it is those points that you will learn from.


2. It may sound cliche, but a gun is not always the answer. In fact, often times it can make the situation worse. When I draw my gun, I better do it with intent. If I'm not sure if it's the right answer, often times it is not. It is possible that going to a range and drawing and firing at cardboard without much thought could be reinforcing a bad habit.


My final thoughts for today.


It was very humbling for myself. I was hoping to have performed much better. There was improvement as the day went on. 911 calls and keeping moving are two that come to mind. I really liked that we got to write up AAR's right after the scenario because I was able to look through them after I got home to track my progress throughout the day and identify problem points that need to be corrected.

 

[volksjager]

Two additional questions I would like to pose to the students in today's class--

How important do you feel the 'testing' aspect of FoF is? And how has such testing changed your perspective on self defense?

Very important. I would have never have played those scenarios in my head.

it's changed everything. i don't fantasize about fictional scenarios...instead i focus on the mistakes i made in class...thanks Shay

it goes without saying...i definitely want to take more classes @mindset

 

[Shay]

I know I say this about every course I have, but Dynamic FoF Scenarios is one of my favorite classes to teach. I get a chance to watch students progress in skills, tactics and Mindset as the day goes on.

This weekend was great. We had a fun group of students who were motivated to learn. By the end of class on Sunday, I'd say I did my job of making them refocus their energies away from square range paper punching. There are more important factors in personal defense than how tiny your groups are.

Thank you all for all your hard work. We definitely built and tested some better Mindsets this weekend.

 

[maliciouslogistics]

Thanks for starting the thread esrice. Here is my take:

1. The training is realistic. There aren't any movie-plot scenarios. They are things that could happen to any of us during the course of doing things that we'd normally do. The roll-players were great and Pleasantville gets better each time I make a trip there which helps a lot with the realism.

2. We had a lot of baseline type training in the intro class. We went straight to the scenarios in dynamic. That allowed the five students to get many different scenarios. We started and finished on time.

3. It was cool to see each student (on cctv) having a different reaction to the scenario and managing it differently. There were times when I thought "I really wish I had managed that the way that he did" so the cctv is really worthwhile - great addition Shay.

4. There is some idle time between scenarios because student rotate through. That never bothered me because I was always busy either writing my thoughts on an AAR, watching other students on the monitor or engaging other students about their experience. I think if I just had to sit around waiting on everyone else to finish it would have sucked but the time is managed very well.

5. I feel like I improved a lot from beginning to end. At the end of each scenario, I got some great advice on how I could have made better decisions. I left the intro class burdened by all the horrible decisions that I made. This time I feel much better prepared for the fight.

Force on force training is undervalued (it has been said before on this forum). I have taken other training and spent countless hours and $$$ at the square range practicing. Nothing has prepared me more for the fight than force on force. If someone new to self-protection and firearms ever asks me what training they should start with, the answer will be force on force, no question about it. We learn marksmanship on the range but you learn how to make good decisions in force on force. I believe strongly that being able to make the right decision under pressure is almost always more important than being able to make a quarter-sized group. I know a lot of people who spend time imagining these scenarios and might think about how they would respond in them. That can be useful but there is no substitute for playing it out in Pleasantville.

Thanks a lot to the great roll-players and Shay for putting on a great class. It was also nice to meet other INGO members there. I'd also like to thank the other students. I'm always impressed by the people that come to training like this. People come from all demographics, backgrounds and experience levels and yet everyone is mature, fun and take the responsibility of gun ownership very seriously. I hope to train again with MSL and the other students again soon.

 

[Turf Doctor]

Two additional questions I would like to pose to the students in today's class--

How important do you feel the 'testing' aspect of FoF is? And how has such testing changed your perspective on self defense?

The testing aspect is very important. You are put into scenarios that you would not think about, then have to perform under stress.

Perspective on self defense. I have heard people say "well, I would have done this". The scenarios are more to being real and not fantasy. Your reaction is different, based on the scenario given. Shooting is not always the best reaction.

 

[MangoTango]

So let me get this straight, shooting and reacting to real people and threats is NOT exactly the same as shooting at the range and watching Navy Seal Movies?? Huh..fancy that.
(should I have out this in purple?)

 

[maliciouslogistics]

So let me get this straight, shooting and reacting to real people and threats is NOT exactly the same as shooting at the range and watching Navy Seal Movies?? Huh..fancy that.
(should I have out this in purple?)

It may surprise you but I don't think that is common knowledge. That is why some people posting to tactics and training keep saying that FoF is undervalued. People like to imagine what they would have done but making it happen in real life is not always as easy as planning it out in the Hogan's Alley in your head.