A very sober look at the tragedy in Norway and our responsibility

[gunowner930]

In their defense, a lot has changed since then. Before Columbine, SOP was to form a perimeter and wait for swat. After the tragedy, SOP was changed to waiting until four officers could go in. Now it has changed to the first responder going in.

I can't remember where I read this, sorry.

Damn, I certainly wouldn't want to be going down hallways alone against an active shooter, especially if I don't know exactly where he/they are. Not very much cover in most hallways.

 

[lrahm]

Damn, I certainly wouldn't want to be going down hallways alone against an active shooter, especially if I don't know exactly where he/they are. Not very much cover in most hallways.

I wouldn't want to either but, if it has to be done to help our children. I will not sit idle.

 

[mrortega]

Face it, some countries do not tolerate guns like our people do (don't take me wrong here). What has happened has definitely been a tragedy. We still have work place violence and too many people with the ability and means to go postal. It scares me whne an individual or group goes into a youth came and kills 80+ people, are we next. Sometimes paranoia is not such a bad thing.

Jack Burton you are right we can't protect everyone. We try, but. I remember a disgruntled worker walked into a plastics company years ago in Evansville (hometown) and killed several fellow workers. It took 9 hits to put him down, without body armor. Like the three previous posts, I pray your powder is dry.

I still remember his name every time I drive by there: Darrell McReynolds. He wasn't killed but tried and sent away for a long time.

 

[sbcman]

The news feed I checked listed the count at 92, others 80 and others 81. That's 80, 81 or 92 too many.

Such a tragedy, ripping into the lives of literally hundreds, if not thousands, of people.

Unfortunately, you know what "they" say about a tragedy.

 

[mrortega]

Sorry to have to disagree with you here, Irahm, but we've all seen the video footage from Columbine and VA Tech and that doesn't jibe with your take. Do they show up? Yep. Do they wait till everything's over before going in? Yep. Seems like every time there's an active shooter the cops hang out and wait and don't charge to the rescue, like on TV.

I agree with both of you. Sometime after the VT shooting, where the first responders got there and waited for the whole team to arrive, the whole time listening to gun fire continuing, a police officer (I called him a po and not "cop" out of extreme respect for him) arrived first at a mass shooting incident and blasted right in and took the guy down with disregard for his own safety. This fine man was a real soldier. A soldier knows that the mission comes first even at the cost of his own life. Any LEOs who aren't prepared to do that should get the hell out right now.

 

[lrahm]

I still remember his name every time I drive by there: Darrell McReynolds. He wasn't killed but tried and sent away for a long time.

You have a very good memory.

 

[mrortega]

You have a very good memory.

My wife wouldn't agree with you. I guess I remember it so well because being a mechanical contractor I've been in the situation where I've inadvertently POd employees and didn't realize it until later. This guy went nuts on some supervisors. I don't remember the whole story but his name stuck also because he lived very close to a couple sheet metal shops on Harlan avenue that we worked with all the time. (Incidently, the Gilligan family murders motivated me to buy my first handgun. It was earth shaking for me because I had small children as did the victims.)

 

[lrahm]

I agree with both of you. Sometime after the VT shooting, where the first responders got there and waited for the whole team to arrive, the whole time listening to gun fire continuing, a police officer (I called him a po and not "cop" out of extreme respect for him) arrived first at a mass shooting incident and blasted right in and took the guy down with disregard for his own safety. This fine man was a real soldier. A soldier knows that the mission comes first even at the cost of his own life. Any LEOs who aren't prepared to do that should get the hell out right now.

No officer doesn't not want to go home at night. They have to prepare for what the worse that humanity can dish out. Most officers go through a whole career without haveing to discharge their weapon. Some several times, just the luck of the draw (sarcasim). No body wants to really shoot someone but you have to prepare for it. You also have to be willing to accept the reality of what the job gives out. I am not on my soap box but I been shot at and shot back. It isn't a good feeling. I really don't know many officers that aren't willing to place themselves in harms way when it comes to something like protecting our children.

 

[lrahm]

My wife wouldn't agree with you. I guess I remember it so well because being a mechanical contractor I've been in the situation where I've inadvertently POd employees and didn't realize it until later. This guy went nuts on some supervisors. I don't remember the whole story but his name stuck also because he lived very close to a couple sheet metal shops on Harlan avenue that we worked with all the time. (Incidently, the Gilligan family murders motivated me to buy my first handgun. It was earth shaking for me because I had small children as did the victims.)

We must be married to the same woman!

 

[John Galt]

THIS IS NOT A SLAM ON THE OUTSTANDING MEN AND WOMEN WHO WEAR THE UNIFORM AND SHOW RESPECT WHILE DOING THEIR DUTY! But, the FACTS are that police cannot be everywhere, all of the time and it takes time to respond, evaluate and react. Until our Natural Right to self defense is recognized and we are allowed to exercise this right (along with the responsibilities that accompany it) these events are going to continue. Recent history with Norway, Columbine, VaTech, Ft. Hood, the McDonalds and Luby's massacres, and countless other situations only highlight the high victim count that is possible when disarmed citizens are confronted by someone intent on evil. We have to stay driven to keep pushing the message that an armed society, held responsible for their actions, is much better than a disarmed society. My two cents.

 

[Markedup]

Jack

Who did you quote?

Thanks

Mark

 

[lrahm]

THIS IS NOT A SLAM ON THE OUTSTANDING MEN AND WOMEN WHO WEAR THE UNIFORM AND SHOW RESPECT WHILE DOING THEIR DUTY! But, the FACTS are that police cannot be everywhere, all of the time and it takes time to respond, evaluate and react. Until our Natural Right to self defense is recognized and we are allowed to exercise this right (along with the responsibilities that accompany it) these events are going to continue. Recent history with Norway, Columbine, VaTech, Ft. Hood, the McDonalds and Luby's massacres, and countless other situations only highlight the high victim count that is possible when disarmed citizens are confronted by someone intent on evil. We have to stay driven to keep pushing the message that an armed society, held responsible for their actions, is much better than a disarmed society. My two cents.

Well stated, did not take it as a slam.

 

[beararms1776]

Face it, some countries do not tolerate guns like our people do (don't take me wrong here). What has happened has definitely been a tragedy. We still have work place violence and too many people with the ability and means to go postal. It scares me whne an individual or group goes into a youth came and kills 80+ people, are we next. Sometimes paranoia is not such a bad thing.

I don't think of it as paranoia, think of it as taking precautions. That's exactly what it is.
There's no excuse for what this person did to these kids. Absolutely none.

 

[Jack Burton]

Jack

Who did you quote?

Thanks

Mark

The whole quote is a link back to the orginal blog. It is the Powerline blog.

 

[j706]

We've all learned from Columbine. We now teach and train officers in tactics to immediately start addressing problems. Last year we were call ro a local high school and had an immediate response to the threat. It's okay to disagree but we have now been trained and practice on a very regular basis. Most of us carry a lot of equipment similar to SWAT. Sitting on our duffs doesn't happen.

Yes we sure have. I just finished the ILEA active shooter response instructor class. This is put on by the academy and is a three day course with a lot of simunitions.

Same here in regards to equipment. I carry a 870, a scoped Remington 700 PSS in .308 and a select fire Colt 14.5" M4 and a Noveke barreled precision scoped AR. Different guns for different jobs. I also carry 20 loaded 30 round mags in my car. Also carry armor with SAPI plates and a Kevlar helmet. The main reason for all the magazines is that most of our guys only have two.

We will now be doing hands on active shooter classes twice a year.

 

[jgreiner]

I don't want to ever hear again from some jackass about how we don't "need" guns because the police are going to guarantee the safety of our parks, our schools, and our children.

Agreed. If a few had been armed, or if counselors had been.......most likely the death toll would have been lower.

Forcing a law abiding population to SUBMIT to the will of such psychos that flaunt the laws is unconscionable.

 

[lrahm]

Yes we sure have. I just finished the ILEA active shooter response instructor class. This is put on by the academy and is a three day course with a lot of simunitions.

Same here in regards to equipment. I carry a 870, a scoped Remington 700 PSS in .308 and a select fire Colt 14.5" M4 and a Noveke barreled precision scoped AR. Different guns for different jobs. I also carry 20 loaded 30 round mags in my car. Also carry armor with SAPI plates and a Kevlar helmet. The main reason for all the magazines is that most of our guys only have two.

We will now be doing hands on active shooter classes twice a year.

YOU DA MAN!, I don't quite have that much. I have a 870, AR with about 6 mags (20 rds) and 3 mags (30). I prefer the 20's for prone position. I know it's stupid, just do. The active shooter courses are really good. Props to you.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Yes we sure have. I just finished the ILEA active shooter response instructor class. This is put on by the academy and is a three day course with a lot of simunitions.

Same here in regards to equipment. I carry a 870, a scoped Remington 700 PSS in .308 and a select fire Colt 14.5" M4 and a Noveke barreled precision scoped AR. Different guns for different jobs. I also carry 20 loaded 30 round mags in my car. Also carry armor with SAPI plates and a Kevlar helmet. The main reason for all the magazines is that most of our guys only have two.

We will now be doing hands on active shooter classes twice a year.

YOU DA MAN!, I don't quite have that much. I have a 870, AR with about 6 mags (20 rds) and 3 mags (30). I prefer the 20's for prone position. I know it's stupid, just do. The active shooter courses are really good. Props to you.

What is you guys' take on regular civilians packing long guns around? I have an AK and an AR along with a pump and semi shotgun that like to live in my vehicle from time to time. All loaded with extra mags/shells. I know it is perfectly legal but I'm interested in what would happen in a stop? I already know j706 doesn't exactly care for OC. What about an AK in the back seat?

 

[lrahm]

What is you guys' take on regular civilians packing long guns around? I have an AK and an AR along with a pump and semi shotgun that like to live in my vehicle from time to time. All loaded with extra mags/shells. I know it is perfectly legal but I'm interested in what would happen in a stop? I already know j706 doesn't exactly care for OC. What about an AK in the back seat?

Many a time my AR rides up front, it like the view (comic relief). No, there has been some nights where I have to put it up front. The shotgun is a little different story. I was taught a long time ago that the sidearm for officers should be their secondary weapon. If you think about it, it makes sense. If you are sent on an alarm or shots fired type of run, the handgun should be secondary. The shotgun comes out.

 

[lrahm]

Titanium, My only concerns (and for me too) is I don't want my car as a target if I stop somewhere. I've seen too many officers cars broken into for the weirdest stuff. I don't want them taking an 870 with 00 buck.