It's not a talisman?
Have you ever fired a handgun?
Nope. Have you ever tried reading the posts before adding your 2 cents?
see #21
It's not a talisman?
Have you ever fired a handgun?
While the .40 S&W caliber has fallen out of favor with many federal, state, and local police departments, in lieu of 9mm, it's still a favorable caliber for home / personal defense as well as sport shooting.Typically a 40 won’t bring as much money as a 9, and they are a harder sell. But you can work that to your advantage to buy it cheaper that way. If you don’t shoot 1000s of rounds per year the 40 is great in a full size gun like the G22 although yes it does cost a bit more to feed than 9. You do get a slightly better performing round than 9,
The big advantage that the G22 brings is that with a barrel / mag swap you can shoot 9mm, 40, and 357 Sig.
The primary negative is that it’s a .40. People debate stopping power ad nauseam but the fact is there isn’t a handgun caliber that guarantees one-shot stopping power. In a self defense shooting scenario, the objective is to put as many rounds on target in the shortest amount of time possible (ideally center mass). That objective applies to every caliber, and the best self defense handgun is the one that allows you to achieve that objective. If you can do it with a larger caliber, great. But .40 in particular just doesn’t make a lot of sense. It may still outperform 9mm, but modern ammunition has closed that gap by quite a bit and those loads are still much more manageable than .40. Point being, if you’re good with .40 in terms of combat-effective shooting, you’ll be better with 9mm; enough so that it’ll offset any advantage you gain from the larger round.Would anyone be willing to give an assessment of the Glock mod. 22 in 40 S&W. I would like especially to hear about reliability, investment potential, or any negative aspects you may be aware of. And thank you in advance for your time and consideration.
Respectfully the whole easier to shoot is BS. Yes you might have 2 tenths of a difference in split times but that doesn’t matters outside the competition realm. You can’t assess if that second or additional shots are warranted and legal that quick.The primary negative is that it’s a .40. People debate stopping power ad nauseam but the fact is there isn’t a handgun caliber that guarantees one-shot stopping power. In a self defense shooting scenario, the objective is to put as many rounds on target in the shortest amount of time possible (ideally center mass). That objective applies to every caliber, and the best self defense handgun is the one that allows you to achieve that objective. If you can do it with a larger caliber, great. But .40 in particular just doesn’t make a lot of sense. It may still outperform 9mm, but modern ammunition has closed that gap by quite a bit and those loads are still much more manageable than .40. Point being, if you’re good with .40 in terms of combat-effective shooting, you’ll be better with 9mm; enough so that it’ll offset any advantage you gain from the larger round.
FWIW, I used to contract with a Federal LEA and still train with one of their instructors who was responsible for developing and providing instruction on firearm training platforms at FLETC. Before they switched to 9mm, he had access to all the .40 Federal HST he wanted. We only ever used it to train on recoil control; every other drill was with 9mm.
Define reliable. Fact is polymer service pistols enjoy tolerances of an Amazon warehouse and are as loose as a streetwalker and yet they do have stoppages.Other than the hate you'll get from the 1911 crowd...
Full disclosure, not a .40 S&W guy. Have a G19 and EDC is a G26 (both Gen 3). G22 is the same frame as the G17 (9mm) full-size with 4.5" barrel.
Even @churchmouse who really hates Glocks will admit, they are reliable.
It's not a talisman?
Have you ever fired a handgun?
Na, don’t need anything. Just curiosity got hold of me. I’m a old school revolver kinda guy. Only auto I shoot much is my old 1911. I shoot my belly gun .380 enough to stay in touch with it. I burn up most of my ammo 6 rounds at a time.
Define reliable. Fact is polymer service pistols enjoy tolerances of an Amazon warehouse and are as loose as a streetwalker and yet they do have stoppages.
Respectfully the whole easier to shoot is BS. Yes you might have 2 tenths of a difference in split times but that doesn’t matters outside the competition realm. You can’t assess if that second or additional shots are warranted and legal that quick.
The main reason 40 fell out was cost both ammo and it is hard on most guns other than an HK USP (remember back in the early 1990’s most every company just drilled a bigger hole in a 9mm and that’s why Glock went to 3 pins and now a wider heavier slide) So it was hard on Guns as mentioned.
As far as “Center Mass” if still taught as far as LE is left over institutional inbreeding. Most are teaching Upper Thoracic and have moved their X ring to reflect that.
So hopefully your friend related that to you.
And again Respectfully. As far as FLETC That can mean a few different things. There are actual FLETC instructors then there are Agency Instructors that teach Agency stuff at FLETC. At least last time I taught there in 2017.
A lot of Agency and FLETC Heads get a lot of their stuff from national LE/Military trainers. I know your validated national level folks like Dave Spaulding and Vickers and Gunsite and such have contacts there that have been so impressed that when they took it back FLETC (or Agencies) have incorporated some things from them. I know post retirement I took 2 Dave Spaulding Classes and 2 Lee Weems classes and they were phenomenal Instructors and were as good if not better than many lead FLETC instructors I had worked with.
The attached photo shows the target used by DHS for quarterly qualifications. The course of fire can be found online if you care to look. As you can see, center mass is still taught.Respectfully the whole easier to shoot is BS. Yes you might have 2 tenths of a difference in split times but that doesn’t matters outside the competition realm. You can’t assess if that second or additional shots are warranted and legal that quick.
The main reason 40 fell out was cost both ammo and it is hard on most guns other than an HK USP (remember back in the early 1990’s most every company just drilled a bigger hole in a 9mm and that’s why Glock went to 3 pins and now a wider heavier slide) So it was hard on Guns as mentioned.
As far as “Center Mass” if still taught as far as LE is left over institutional inbreeding. Most are teaching Upper Thoracic and have moved their X ring to reflect that.
So hopefully your friend related that to you.
And again Respectfully. As far as FLETC That can mean a few different things. There are actual FLETC instructors then there are Agency Instructors that teach Agency stuff at FLETC. At least last time I taught there in 2017.
A lot of Agency and FLETC Heads get a lot of their stuff from national LE/Military trainers. I know your validated national level folks like Dave Spaulding and Vickers and Gunsite and such have contacts there that have been so impressed that when they took it back FLETC (or Agencies) have incorporated some things from them. I know post retirement I took 2 Dave Spaulding Classes and 2 Lee Weems classes and they were phenomenal Instructors and were as good if not better than many lead FLETC instructors I had worked with.
Why I said respectfully. And I didn’t mean anything against your friend. The center Mass comment got me. While I get it some agencies still have the “qual” target which is just a test nothing more usually cover or do supplemental training where the upper thoracic is driven him to target.The attached photo shows the target used by DHS for quarterly qualifications. The course of fire can be found online if you care to look. As you can see, center mass is still taught.
The instructor was an actual FLETC instructor. He had to draft and videotape each course of fire, which he had archived. A current ICE SRT Tactical Supervisor worked with him at FLETC and was also based out of the Miami field office at the time I worked there. Up until his retirement last year, he was still acting as an instructor for ICE SRT teams in south Florida (I had the opportunity to shoot one of their courses of fire with the M4 designed around urban combat. They had brought in vehicles from a junk yard and set up a number of barriers to simulate the environment. It was pretty cool).
I’m sure he probably did pull ideas from a number of places. He joined the Army out of HS and served in one of the Airborne divisions for 8 years before joining the agency. If you taught at FLETC, I’m sure you’re aware of how frequently agents rotate in/out of assignments so I don’t recall everything he did. I do know he worked for CBP in both the Air and Marine Interdiction units before his 3-year stint as an Air Marshal. I believe he went from that post to FLETC. Point being, he probably picked up a few things along the way that he incorporated into his training platforms.
I’m not going to act like I’m an authority on firearms training, because I’m not. I was just relaying information passed on to me from a guy that I do consider to be an authority. He worked for the federal government from the time he was 18 to the day he hit mandatory retirement. A large portion of that time was dedicated to firearms training, and he did have to apply it in the field. Take it for what you will.
I, too, favor a revolver over a semi-auto, for general handgun uses. I have a S&W 360J in .357 magnum (I definitely prefer 110 grain Corbon's in it for the milder felt recoil) but in my 3" Ruger GP100 .357 magnum, I prefer 158 grain JSP or 170 grain hard-cast in it...it's wonderfully accurate and it handles the felt recoil from the heavier loads quite well! Here it is, in it's pre-upgrade days!Now, I do shoot a couple auto loaders. Not much or many, mostly my old Colts 1911 and my constant carry belly gun a Ruger .380, about 1000 +/- rnds. per year. Combined. On the other hand when I go to the city I carry a revolver, always a S&W. 5 shot J frame in my small farm town, K frame in the city with a speed loader. Both, all, in Galco leather OWB, speed draw. The revolvers while I’m no Miculek I do shoot a lot. ~100 to 200 rnds. Daily. About 300 days a year, rain or shine, hot or cold, day or night. I’m 70+ yrs old and quite set in my ways. I did qualify expert with the 1911 but that was in 68. And I had a DI that I could live with. In my hey day autos were not that accurate and if you didn’t shoot a k-38 masterpiece you didn’t know squat about accuracy. Obviously things and times have changed. Still to this day I never point my sidearm or any gun anywhere but down range, it was instilled (smacked) into me it is ingrained into my mind. My home range is a standing bench next to a sitting rifle bench. Under a sheet metal roof. Metal hanging or standing targets. From 7 yards to 300 yards. Some rim fire store bought some home made square 3/8th’s boiler plate, 4 in. 12 in. 14 in. Lots of friends come to sight in hunting guns and some to shoot for practice. If I don’t know you, I’m sorry. Screw up’s are and have been shown to their truck.
Glocks strong point is they are generally reliable.Would anyone be willing to give an assessment of the Glock mod. 22 in 40 S&W. I would like especially to hear about reliability, investment potential, or any negative aspects you may be aware of. And thank you in advance for your time and consideration.
So they copied a 100+ years of USGI 1911's, because those loose goose's never have stoppages.Define reliable. Fact is polymer service pistols enjoy tolerances of an Amazon warehouse and are as loose as a streetwalker and yet they do have stoppages.
I do not find one less reliable than the other. What I do believe however is that the SSP is easier to teach the masses on how to spray lead. The 1911 however, is a platform that requires discipline, determination, commitment, and mucho practice to master. No doubt the reason for its decline.So they copied a 100+ years of USGI 1911's, because those loose goose's never have stoppages.
The biggest thing that make Glocks choke is aftermarket parts, YouTube armorer attempts or bad handloads.I do not find one less reliable than the other. What I do believe however is that the SSP is easier to teach the masses on how to spray lead. The 1911 however, is a platform that requires discipline, determination, commitment, and mucho practice to master. No doubt the reason for its decline.
This is what got me to go to the Glock route for competition. I could carry a few extra parts and a couple tools in the bag and there was a good chance I could get it back running with little work. The simplicity is a plus in this case. I don't really like the 1911 to Glock (or Glock type) comparisons, they're 2 different styles of guns. You can like both for different reasons, doesn't have to be one is better than the other.The biggest thing that make Glocks choke is aftermarket parts, YouTube armorer attempts or bad handloads.
Where Glocks (and other strikers) beat out 1911’s as far as afency guns is less parts and waivers in long term.
With under 49 parts and most last a long time and if required to be changed is a simple drop in. 1911’s you aren’t dropping in an extractor and expecting it to work 100% without tuning it.
And factor in you have to lube a 1911 to get through a 2 day 1,000 round class a lot more than a Glock (or most any Stryker)
Don’t get me wrong I have and carry 1911’s at times and they can be great guns. but they are not for everyone especially ones that only do once a year agency mandated qualification
A Glock is like a revolver as you can leave it in a drawer for 6 years and it’s easy for a homeowner that isn’t into shooting to have something they can use.