A bad weekend: death through misadventure

[Archbishop]

Hypothermia can get you real quick. I think some people associate it with frost bite. They know there's a difference, but believe that more or less it takes the same weather conditions to get hit with either injury. In fact hypothermia can start in temps as high as 50 degrees and has been noted the symptoms and how bad off you are can be very deceiving.
On death by misadventure, They say ignorance is bliss. While this may be true in some situations, ignorance can get you in trouble before you even know there was trouble to get into. The trouble is "you don't know what you don't know" really applies here.
Not to thread jack this reminds me of misadventure story that I read last year concerning a couple of young guys rafting down the Virgin river in Zion National Park last year. They had no rafting experience, no life jackets, and if they'd have asked a ranger they'd have been told to stay off the river because the volume was to high, but ignorance is bliss. They set off on a home made raft. They texted friends back home to say they were rafting and would text again when they finished. Their bodies were pulled out of the water a few hours later. They never really had a chance, and didn't know it.
I feel for the families in situations like this.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I took some avalanche and crevasse rescue courses out in the Cascades some years back when I was climbing a lot and I doubt I could even remember how to rig a z-pulley system now. Skills get rusty quick if you don't use them. Shibumiseeker, you're a credit to this forum for many reasons, but high among them must be your rescue work. Nicholai Hel has nothing on you. It's a shame about those boys.

 

[jeremy]

I would place my money on the cause being Hypothermia...

I have experienced Hypothermia at 130+ F...
It is not fun either...

Congrats on coming back out of that one Shibumiseeker. You cannot save everyone from St Darwin...

 

[Rookie]

How do you get hypothermia in 130 degree weather? Not doubting you, just wanting to learn.

 

[jeremy]

How do you get hypothermia in 130 degree weather? Not doubting you, just wanting to learn.

Wear Lots of heavy Body Armor for 12 hours standing in direct sunlight then take and drop down to nothing more than a Cotton T-Shirt...

Tada...

The next thing you will realize is you are cuddling with 2 People that you really don't want to cuddle with in a 1 man mummy bag...

The Plus side is I did get out of Walking Route Irish for a week...

 

[Rookie]

So it's the rapid temp drop not really the actual temp that matters?

 

[jeremy]

So it's the rapid temp drop not really the actual temp that matters?

Sometimes...
Both...
Depends on the Person...

Constant actual cold temps are probably the most common cause. However all you have to do to hit the magic Hypothermia wall is drop the Core Body Temp to below 95*F. Body core temp is normally between 98-100*F...

I really do not recommend the experience at all...

 

[Woodsman]

Sometimes...
Both...
Depends on the Person...

Constant actual cold temps are probably the most common cause. However all you have to do to hit the magic Hypothermia wall is drop the Core Body Temp to below 95*F. Body core temp is normally between 98-100*F...

I really do not recommend the experience at all...

A few degrees the other way is not much fun either. BTDT. The body can deal with quite a lot of adversity but it doesn't react very well to changes in core temperature. I think this is a good word of caution for those who underestimate the impact of dangers they can unwittingly place themselves in.

Somethings testosterone will not get you out of.

 

[SirRealism]

shibumiseeker, dude, thanks for risking your life in order to save others. Even though this one didn't work out for the best, I'm glad you and your buddies came out mostly unscathed.

 

[shibumiseeker]

So it's the rapid temp drop not really the actual temp that matters?

Not really, rapid temperature drop has other effects. In Jeremy's case what most likely happened was that his peripheral circulation was running at full bore trying to dump heat, and his underclothes were soaked. When he got out of his gear and into a cooler environment his peripheral circulation dumped a lot of heat quickly and as his body was shunting it back to the core it was a lot of cooler volume in the core very quickly.

The actual core temp is very important. In the case of things like immersion in frigid waters not only can the core temp drop rapidly, there are certain autonomic reflexes that can kick in that can kill or incapacitate, but that was not likely his case.

Our treatment of mild hypothermia is to heat 'em, feed 'em and beat 'em (get them moving to generate heat). Our field treatment of severe hypothermia (the point where the body is no longer trying to compensate) is to prevent further heat loss and get them to a care facility.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I don't think I'd put it quite as harshly, but it's true. We had one significant injury (luckily just some bad bruising) among the rescuers, and the guy I sent down to attach the line to them was in a measure of danger I would not have placed him in if there'd been no chance at all anyone was still alive.

I've lost friends while they were performing rescues and damn near became a casualty myself during one when the line was was on was almost disconnected by another rescuer when I was near the top of a 65' drop.

If I had a heart attack while caving or hiking and died, I would have died doing something I loved. If I died because I made a bad decision that's just a waste.

I admit I put it more harshly than I should have, but I've seen rescuers injured and/or almost killed trying to save others from their stupidity often enough to be less than sympathetic towards those who blithely hie themselves off without thinking about what they're doing. Of those 13 searches I cited during hunting season in Washington State, every one of the 11 we found were wearing denim and every one was suffering from hypothermia. It's not like hypothermia wasn't being covered in the mandatory hunting safety classes, but people just often don't think it will happen to them. I got abused of that notion really quickly the first time it happened to me and I told myself "never again".

 

[jeremy]

Not really, rapid temperature drop has other effects. In Jeremy's case what most likely happened was that his peripheral circulation was running at full bore trying to dump heat, and his underclothes were soaked. When he got out of his gear and into a cooler environment his peripheral circulation dumped a lot of heat quickly and as his body was shunting it back to the core it was a lot of cooler volume in the core very quickly.

Very close in you description of events...

The only change was the "Cooler" environment was in direct Sunlight in the Bed of a 5T (Big 6x6 Cargo Truck) with a gentle Iraqi late afternoon breeze (the Thermometer in my truck had the temp at 133*F at 17:45 when the event happened to me...

I would hate to guess how hot I was before I dropped my gear...

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I did a "Warfighter" exercise at Ft. Leavenworth, KS one July. I worked the night shift and, because of a scheduling mixup, I ended up walking the 2 miles from my hotel to the exercise site. Not too bad, even in 95 heat; I had a CamelBak and kept myself hydrated, but when I got there, I'd basically soaked through my underwear. No problem; I'll just bring an extra set. Next day I get there, soaked again, and change my underwear. I promptly soak that set as well (fortunately, it was warm enough that the first set dried before I had to go into the air conditioning). Third day, I waited 30 minutes for my body to stop sweating before I changed. Problem solved.