.460 S&W - Indiana Deer Legal?

[snapping turtle]

Hand loaded the 357 max will give you the ballistics of a mid factory load in 35 rem. The 35 rem was created for a auto rem rifle. (Model 5??? one was used to kill bonnie and Clyde ). So it is a low pressure round because of the older rifle steel used not being as good at holding high pressure. A bit like the factory 45-70's. The loads for a springfield trap door are lower than a marlin guide gun.

Now a hand loaded 35 rem or the new leverevolution is a different subject. Maybe even a factory core lock. Still I think the max is a 200 yard deer gun. I used it for several years on indiana deer in a t/c contender 14 inch but never shot it over 50 yards on deer. I then got into the 7-30 waters round and use it now.

 

[kludge]

This buck field dressed approx 170lbs was shot at approx 105yds. Firearm was a H&R Ultra opened to 357max. Load was 180gr Hornady SSP behind 30gr AA1680. Velocity is 2200fps range and groups MOA in this rifle. Bullet hit the buck on his left entering between the last two ribs and exiting behind the last rib on the right side essentially taking out the back of the lungs and the liver. The deer fell over the creek above him in the picture. He lay about 15ft from where he was shot. You could easily stick your thumb in the exit hole. This buck was killed by my buddy Adam Saunders.

source: http://bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=121

If you are interested in the Max, I recommend spending some time at Mike Bellm's web site. He talks specifically about Max chambers, and why a typical revolver reamer is not the best choice for a rifle.

Mike Bellm TCs - .357 Rem. Max. Chamber Throats

And this:

http://www.hoosierhunting.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/3450.html#000012

 

[NealWright]

Yeah, the 35Rem is still going to have more velocity ... Keep in mind, the Max is also a "low pressure" pistol cartridge. I've reloaded for both, there's just far more case capacity in the .35

I've read a bunch of Mike Bellm. I can't say that I agree with his comments about the Max. Correct, the Max is reamed with a large pistol "forcing cone". Whether that is hugely detrimental to accurancy ... I can't see it. Mine groups 1-1.5" @100yds without any load development (just loaded, and shot).

 

[kludge]

Yeah, the 35Rem is still going to have more velocity ... Keep in mind, the Max is also a "low pressure" pistol cartridge. I've reloaded for both, there's just far more case capacity in the .35

.35 Rem is 33.5kpsi, while .357 Max is 40kpsi; factoring in expansion ratios it's hard to say. Factory .35 Rem ammo is 2300fps for 150gr and 2080fps for 200gr (Remington's numbers). Max loads for the .35 Rem from Hodgdon show 2232fps with a 180gr bullet. What a handloader can do in a 22"-24" Contender with either cartridge will vary, but safe pressures in a T/C are about 45kpsi (A generalization, YMMV, I am not condoning exceeding any loading tables).

So, I'm looking forward to see what A1680 will do for your .357 Max! Accurate's old data was 1968fps from a 14" T/C with 26.5gr of 1680. Add 8-10" of barrel and it should get intersting.

 

[dbd870]

I have a 20" 357Max barrel for my Encores. With 20gr. (1gr under Hodgdon's max load) of H110 & the 180SSP I'm getting 2105fps. Can't get over a 100yd shot so I haven't played around with trying to ring any extra fps out of it.