35 Remington vs 12 ga

[Expatriated]

Not sure if this is the correct forum since my question encompasses hunting as well as ballistics, but here goes:

I've been hunting the past few years using Remington's 12 gauge 2 3/4 Accutip Slugs with good results. They pack a pretty good kick but they knock down the deer. I'm considering something lighter and with a less kick.

The more I read about one of the quintessential "deer cartridges" (.35 Remington), the more I'm considering switching over that cartridge.

The .35 Remington is not currently legal for deer in Indiana but if the case is trimmed (apparently easily done), it makes the grade.

According to Remington, the 12 ga slug has the following ballistics:

385 gr
MV 1850 fps
Ft Lbs Muzzle 3,000
Ft lbs at 100 yards 1,700

The 35 Remington:
200 gr
MV 2080 fps
Ft lbs Muzzle: 1,921
Ft lbs 100 yards: 1,280



First of all--Those 12 ga stats seem pretty high to me--think they are right?

Secondly, what are the affects ballistically of trimming the .35 Remington case from 1.920 to 1.8 to make the Indiana regs? Do you have to make powder adjustments?

 

[cedarthicket]

Without checking the manufacturer's literature, the stats you post for the 12 gauge and the .35 Remington look reasonable to me.

Regarding the second question, you may wish to review the long (very informative) thread in this forum (I think on page 2) on the .35 Remington 1.800 inch case.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading/184003-35-remington-1-800-a.html

 

[Expatriated]

great recommendation. just read all 27 pages.

I'm good now. Just have to figure out how to trim the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I'm a little fuzzy on that. Or have Lee make a custom one for me.

Now to look for an good used 336.

Thanks

 

[Broom_jm]

For those who aren't going to read all 27 pages, and to directly answer the OP's questions:

The 35 Remington kicks about half as much as the 12 gauge, but when loaded with FTX bullets and LVR powder, has somewhat greater effective range. Cleanly taking a deer at 200 yards with a 35 Remington and the FTX loads is very reasonable. Trimming the case has basically no impact whatsoever on the load recipes you use or the velocities you can attain; the only caveat is applying a good crimp with a modified Lee FCD is something you will probably want to do. A PM to Kludge will likely result in very clear directions on how to go about it.

Bottom line: For those who are competent at reloading, the 35 Remington is the easiest, least expensive way to extend your Indiana-legal deer hunting range, while drastically reducing recoil. You can shoot the 35 Remington for FUN...whereas the cost and punishing recoil of the 12 gauge slugs make it something very few folks go out and shoot just for grins.

To find a decent deal on a 336, consider Bud's Guns or Williams Gun Sight company. Don't expect to find many on shelves here in Indiana...too many folks have already figured this out!

 

[HuntMeister]

the only caveat is applying a good crimp with a modified Lee FCD is something you will probably want to do. A PM to Kludge will likely result in very clear directions on how to go about it.

Kludge has told me that it was not he who had the FCD mod info, can you recall who does?

 

[mike trible]

I modified my 'Lee FCD' by screwing it into my press, dropping an approx. 3" piece of 1/2" hardwood dowel rod in on top of the collett, and then took a small hammer and whacked the dowel rod. The collett came partially out the bottom and I was able to pull it out the rest of the way with my fingers. Then I measured the length of the collett, ( write that number down ) with a micrometer. Then using a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel, and then a file I I took .12" off the bottom of the collett. ( go slow, take your time, and measure often ). Then I pushed the collett back into the die with my hands. I trimmed my once fired .35 Rem cases to 1.795" and the crimp was right on at this length. When you crimp your reloads, you do not have to crimp in the cannelure of the bullet. Set your seating depth to get the proper overall length of the cartridge. The Lee FCD will crimp without a cnnelure. Mike Trible

 

[HuntMeister]

Thanks Mike!

 

[djones]

I took the fully assembled FCD and removed 0.1" from the bottom using a belt sander

 

[gregkl]

For those who aren't going to read all 27 pages, and to directly answer the OP's questions:

The 35 Remington kicks about half as much as the 12 gauge, but when loaded with FTX bullets and LVR powder, has somewhat greater effective range. Cleanly taking a deer at 200 yards with a 35 Remington and the FTX loads is very reasonable. Trimming the case has basically no impact whatsoever on the load recipes you use or the velocities you can attain; the only caveat is applying a good crimp with a modified Lee FCD is something you will probably want to do. A PM to Kludge will likely result in very clear directions on how to go about it.

To find a decent deal on a 336, consider Bud's Guns or Williams Gun Sight company. Don't expect to find many on shelves here in Indiana...too many folks have already figured this out!

Is this comparing it to slugs? It has been a long time since I shot my Marlin(my brother has it in TN where it is legal to hunt with), but compared to shooting my 12 ga with Trap loads, I remember the .35 kicking a lot harder! Once I even got a nice round circle from the scope imprinted in my forehead when I got lax on my grip.

 

[1$Chuck]

35 rem doesn't kick bad at all. I can shoot 15 or so at a setting and not be sore.

 

[foxmustang]

I Did The Shortened 45/70 For Deer This Year. I Work At A Machine Shop, So All I Did Was Chuck The Collet Up In A Lathe And Trim The Necessary Amount Off. Just Subtract Original Case Length From Shortened Case Length And That'll Tell You How Much To Trim Off.

 

[Broom_jm]

Is this comparing it to slugs? It has been a long time since I shot my Marlin(my brother has it in TN where it is legal to hunt with), but compared to shooting my 12 ga with Trap loads, I remember the .35 kicking a lot harder! Once I even got a nice round circle from the scope imprinted in my forehead when I got lax on my grip.

Yes, that is compared to 12 gauge slugs. Are you sure it was a 35 Remington that kicked so hard? If you were comparing a 12 gauge, with a stock that fit you and had a recoil pad, to a lever-action with a solid plastic butt-plate, that might explain the difference. All other things being equal, the 35 Remington kicks about like a 243 Winchester...which is to say about 12 lbs of felt recoil, compared to 25 lbs (at least) for your typical 2-3/4" slug loads. Some of the 3" magnum slug loads develop 3 or even 4 (FOUR!) times as much recoil as the 35 Remington. It really is a dramatic difference.

 

[gregkl]

Yes, that is compared to 12 gauge slugs. Are you sure it was a 35 Remington that kicked so hard? If you were comparing a 12 gauge, with a stock that fit you and had a recoil pad, to a lever-action with a solid plastic butt-plate, that might explain the difference. All other things being equal, the 35 Remington kicks about like a 243 Winchester...which is to say about 12 lbs of felt recoil, compared to 25 lbs (at least) for your typical 2-3/4" slug loads. Some of the 3" magnum slug loads develop 3 or even 4 (FOUR!) times as much recoil as the 35 Remington. It really is a dramatic difference.

Yup, pretty sure. The gun has been in our family for over 45 years and has taken many, many deer by most of the members of our family. It may well be that I forgot how much it kicked and only remember that day the scope made contact with me hard enough to draw blood.

 

[Expatriated]

To find a decent deal on a 336, consider Bud's Guns or Williams Gun Sight company. Don't expect to find many on shelves here in Indiana...too many folks have already figured this out!

I'll check around. The good thing is that .35's aren't exactly in demand in other states, so there are plenty around. I think the round works cause if IN ever does away with this asinine deer cartridge regulation, the full size .35 Rem is still a great gun and will have a much better market than one of those .358 Hoosiers.

 

[kludge]

For anyone looking for the FCD mods...

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...4003-35-remington-1-800-a-17.html#post3670678

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ding/250949-trimming-cases-2.html#post3591781

 

[bstewrat3]

I have been using the 35 Remington in a rimmed shortened version this year in a 16" T/C Contender and have been very happy with it. In the past 15 years I have been hunting deer I haven't used the same cartridge twice, but like this one enough that I think it may be a keeper. I am using the Hornady 180gr SP-SPP over Leverevolution in a modified 30-40 Krag case.

 

[Broom_jm]

Any gun with a scope that "bites ya!" is gonna be remembered as kicking pretty hard. Also, kids think any loud gun kicks hard and our memories can trick us. I can promise you that anyone who shoots a 35 Remington and then a 12 gauge with slugs is not going to be confused as to which has more recoil.

Yeah, if Indiana changes their regulations again and lets us use regular cartridges for deer hunting, the 35 Remington rifles will still be completely serviceable, as well as easier to sell than some of the obscure wildcats that have been built. When you consider these shortened 35 Remmy loads are good for 200 yards, and a high percentage of shots on whitetails come at half that distance or less, you could just keep on using one of these guns and be very effective. If your chamber was cut counter-bore to allow for the use of a rimmed cartridge, like the 30-40 Krag or 303 British, that gun has even more range, but can still be made to fire factory 35 Remington ammo and sold as such.

Bstewrat3 - could you maybe post a picture of your T/C? I'd love to see it.

 

[gregkl]

Any gun with a scope that "bites ya!" is gonna be remembered as kicking pretty hard. Also, kids think any loud gun kicks hard and our memories can trick us. I can promise you that anyone who shoots a 35 Remington and then a 12 gauge with slugs is not going to be confused as to which has more recoil.

Thanks. You are probably right. It's been so long since I shot it. I told my brother I wanted it back, so hopefully I'll pick it up soon. I am already looking forward to taking it to the range. It has sentimental value as my Dad used to hunt with it every year. We lived in MI and it is a nice caliber for the woods we hunted there. I always and still do think it's cool that it is a .35 Rem and not a 30-30 like most of the Marlins are. I don't have anything against the 30-30, I just like that it's different. Plus that old Marlin is a nice rifle.

 

[Expatriated]

I have a pretty high tolerance for recoil. At least above average. The first time I spent a morning (and a ton of money) shooting 2 3/4 and 3" slugs out of my 870, I was ready to call it a day. That was no joke. Cumulative effect too. The last one hurt WAY worse than the first

But, it's really not an issue in a stand. You're only shooting one and with all the cold weather clothing and the adrenaline, I really don't ever even notice the recoil.

On that long thread about the .35, someone wrote that Lee will build a custom FCD for only $25 to your specs. Is this really true? Seems pretty cheap to have one that comes from the factory like that. Anyone have any more info on this?

 

[Vamptepes]

Yep 25$ plus shipping though. Custom Services - Lee Precision