22LR flippers

[ghitch75]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading-supplies/342539-22-lr-ammo.html

 

[treeman22]

I've never understood why idiots think they have to stockpile 50k - 100k rounds of .22
If the SHTF, unless a person has extensive military training, no one could get off more than 50 shots of .22 in defense/fights before they themselves died. And why would you use .22 for defense?
In a survival situation, a person is unlikely to shoot more than 5,000 rnds in 10 years. And the local squirrel/rabbit population would go extinct long before then.

By stockpiling today all you are doing is preventing your fellow shooters from acquiring ammo.

 

[billt]

I've never understood why idiots think they have to stockpile 50k - 100k rounds of .22

By stockpiling today all you are doing is preventing your fellow shooters from acquiring ammo.

First off, smart people "stockpile" .22 ammo when it's cheap and no one wants it. Not when they're standing in line for it at $75.00 a brick. I, much like a few in this thread, have stockpiled a lifetime of .22 ammo. The difference is I did it back in the 80's and 90's when it was everywhere, and dirt cheap. I didn't "prevent" anyone from doing the same. I haven't purchased a round of .22 ammunition in years, and I doubt I'll ever have to, regardless of how much I shoot. To me it makes sense to purchase commodities like ammo when I'm working, and have surplus funds to do it. Not when I'm retired and don't.

 

[mkgr22]

Any more of your co-pilots trying to die on you? Just kidding.

Not yet. But if he doesn't behave better I might try to scare him to death.

 

[jamil]

I think the stockpiling for shtf is more about the value of ammo in that situation. It's as good a currency in that scenario as you could get because a lot of folks who would need it won't have it.

But personally, I just can't get into all the doomsday prepping. I'm just working on building up a 3 yr supply so I can feed my shooting habit during the next crisis. Like when Hillary get's to redecorate the WH. I imagine there will be another panic. And hopefully I won't care. And maybe I'll have enough to share with some fellow addicts.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I've never understood why idiots think they have to stockpile 50k - 100k rounds of .22
If the SHTF, unless a person has extensive military training, no one could get off more than 50 shots of .22 in defense/fights before they themselves died. And why would you use .22 for defense?
In a survival situation, a person is unlikely to shoot more than 5,000 rnds in 10 years. And the local squirrel/rabbit population would go extinct long before then.

By stockpiling today all you are doing is preventing your fellow shooters from acquiring ammo.

Guess I am an idiot then. Or the person who thinks the only reason to build an inventory is because of TEOTWAWKI. Your thinking of what is a SHTF is sadly limited. SHTF isn't just the end of the world as we know it, it can be anything, including loss of job or income. I stockpile ALL consumables because I've lived through shortages. Sometimes the shortages have been because people have panicked and are panic buying, sometimes the shortages have been because production is limited for a while causing prices to rise, and sometimes things happen in life that cause one to not have the income one once had, be it because of loss of job, new family member arriving, or whatever.

If you buy something when it is cheap and plentiful and put it away, how is that being an idiot? Who needs $50-100k in the bank? Why keep more than a few days food on hand? Why have any more than a tank of gas in the car?

From March last year until January I had no income at all except a very occasional odd job. No unemployment insurance, nothing. From January until just yesterday I had a part time job that was bringing in around $500 a month. But in that time I was pretty much able to live my life pretty normally except I couldn't buy new toys or go out to eat as much I might have in the past (which wasn't much to begin with). I was still shooting almost daily.

This is because I have a 5-10 year supply of ammo and reloading supplies on hand that all was bought when it was cheap and plentiful. I had 2 years of food on hand. I had a little money in savings. I had 2 year supply of gasoline on hand. If my underemployment had continued I would have started selling some of my extra ammo because it's as good as money in a bank because it's a reasonably liquid asset.

So I guess my having more than 50k rounds of .22lr, bought when there was plenty on the shelves, makes me an idiot. Guess the fact that I have been selling a box or two here and there for a little more than I bought it for to people I know who want to actually shoot it but can't find it for normal retail prices makes me an idiot.

Derrr. Derrrr.



Now, it IS foolish to be stocking up when the gray market price is really high, but some people just have to buy high and sell low.

 

[AA&E]

So $20? That's a lot of care right there.

Hold up there champ... don't you mean $75 worth? It's one way or the other.... it can't be both depending on which way the wind is blowing.

 

[AA&E]

And it's low class to expect OTHERS who bothered to prepare to bail out those who didn't. I haven't bought 22 ammo in 5 years but I have plenty. I don't owe it to anyone.

If the entire future of shooting sports hinges on the availability of cheap and plentiful 22 ammo, you'd think a concerned party would willingly buy up ammo with their own money in times of plenty to bail out others during the next shortage at 0 profit. Can I put you down for $1000?

Nobody is expecting those that are all about themselves to do anything for anyone... carry on however you see fit. Meanwhile I will continue to have my opinion and express it when I choose. I work from 0530 until 1400/1500 daily through the week. I run a business during my off hours. I am not able to be one of the people that have nothing more pressing on their schedules than standing in line at walmart waiting for bulk packs of ammo to hit the shelves. And yes, the future of shooting sports does revolve around the availability of ammo that you can ease kids into. You think we just throw them out there with a 30/30 lever action and expect them to enjoy the sport?

You speak of the times of plenty as if the supply issues concerning 22LR was something everyone expected and could prepare for. Shooting sports is a summer event. The sandy hook incident occured in december and things quickly went to ****. Have anymore brilliant ideas for the rest of us on how we are doing it wrong?

 

[AA&E]

It's sold within minutes of being put out. If you aren't there when it is, you'd think that none was coming in at all.

I think that was his point. I've even seen reports that walmart workers are taking the stock as it arrives in certain location to resell. There was a thread here a few weeks back concerning that issue.

That said, both my LGS have inventory on the shelves.

 

[AA&E]

I still dont get it about 22 ammo hoarding? Is it because it's cheap and people can tell everyone at the watercooler they have 20k rounds of ammo stockpiled to sound cool? Once again...you guys know a 22 wont kill a zombie right?

I disagree, it's more about shot placement than caliber. But I do think 20k rounds is a bit excessive. Ammo has a shelf life, this is why the military discards their ammo on standard schedules even when stored under perfect conditions. If not stored properly you'll definitely experience some failures with cartridges in the future which will make shooting them a total pain in the ass. I had some older 22 WMR that had the slightest amount of vanish/staining to the cases that cracked down the side of the cases when fired. Made extracting a pain in the ass. And it fouled the chamber excessively. Ultimately I discarded them because it wasn't worth it when I had fresh ammo on hand. These were stored in a gun safe their extire existence. Not sure what happened to them, other then being 20+ years old.

 

[AA&E]

First off, smart people "stockpile" .22 ammo when it's cheap and no one wants it. Not when they're standing in line for it at $75.00 a brick. I, much like a few in this thread, have stockpiled a lifetime of .22 ammo. The difference is I did it back in the 80's and 90's when it was everywhere, and dirt cheap. I didn't "prevent" anyone from doing the same. I haven't purchased a round of .22 ammunition in years, and I doubt I'll ever have to, regardless of how much I shoot. To me it makes sense to purchase commodities like ammo when I'm working, and have surplus funds to do it. Not when I'm retired and don't.

Have you experienced and failure to fire, or case splitting with this old of ammo. I had some that did exactly that. It had been stored in my fathers gunsafe until he passed away. I literally had 5 out of 6 rounds cases splitting open down the side. Hard to extract. Fouling the chamber. These rounds were likely between 20 to 40 years old. What's your experience been like with rounds this old?

 

[jamil]

If every retailer of .22 ammo priced it at current market value today, it would be on the shelves and "affordable" by summer. By fall it would probably be back to pre panic availability and price.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I disagree, it's more about shot placement than caliber. But I do think 20k rounds is a bit excessive. Ammo has a shelf life, this is why the military discards their ammo on standard schedules even when stored under perfect conditions. If not stored properly you'll definitely experience some failures with cartridges in the future which will make shooting them a total pain in the ass. I had some older 22 WMR that had the slightest amount of vanish/staining to the cases that cracked down the side of the cases when fired. Made extracting a pain in the ass. And it fouled the chamber excessively. Ultimately I discarded them because it wasn't worth it when I had fresh ammo on hand. These were stored in a gun safe their extire existence. Not sure what happened to them, other then being 20+ years old.

I have .22lr ammo from the 1960s (about 2000 rounds I got when my stepfather died) that is shooting just fine. What is excessive to you is a fun afternoon for someone else. I know many people who think anyone who has more than a box of 50 on hand is excessive. I shoot about a hundred rounds of .22lr a week, so 20k rounds is about four years of my normal shooting. And I don't give a rat's hiney if anyone else thinks that's excessive. I can afford it (costs me about $20 a month and I don't smoke or drink, I know people who spend way more than that for their vices) and I buy it when it's not in short supply so it hasn't impacted anyone else.

Ammo has a shelf life, but it's measured in decades stored properly. With .22lr there is wide variability in manufacture so crap ammo this year may have been decent quality 20 years ago and vice versa.

 

[AA&E]

I have .22lr ammo from the 1960s (about 2000 rounds I got when my stepfather died) that is shooting just fine. What is excessive to you is a fun afternoon for someone else. I know many people who think anyone who has more than a box of 50 on hand is excessive. I shoot about a hundred rounds of .22lr a week, so 20k rounds is about four years of my normal shooting. And I don't give a rat's hiney if anyone else thinks that's excessive. I can afford it (costs me about $20 a month and I don't smoke or drink, I know people who spend way more than that for their vices) and I buy it when it's not in short supply so it hasn't impacted anyone else.



Ammo has a shelf life, but it's measured in decades stored properly. With .22lr there is wide variability in manufacture so crap ammo this year may have been decent quality 20 years ago and vice versa.

The rounds I had that split were Federal brand. I am really not sure how old they were, but likely between 20 - 40 years old. I wish I had saved some or taken pictures of some of the rounds to post. I might be able to find a few on the ground, I have a outdoor range at home and they are still laying out there. I shoot about the same amount you do. Take the kids out and run through 100 rounds on a saturday afternoon.

 

[dieselrealtor]

There are a lot of people who were caught by surprise & had little to none set aside. Some will remember this & pack ammo & reloading supplies away when it becomes plentiful. Some will not & then complain about those who do when it is scarce again. I sold off a little Winchester .22lr recently that I traded for a while back, I have done no flipping just to be clear. I have gathered some for shooting & short term storage as I shoot several times a week & currently don't have my reloading area setup so .22 is the round of choice at the moment. I do expect to put more away when it becomes plentiful/cheap again & during the next "crisis" (you know one is coming, just a matter of when) sell some off for profit or lucrative trades.

It is my personal belief that one of my primary roles is to provide for my family. I find it hard to believe that there are many here that if they purchased a car below market value would sell for what you have in it. ie, (theoretical) 72 Corvette that you bought for $1000 that has a market value of $5000, would you really sell it for $1000 to "help your fellow enthusiasts". Same thing with your home when you go to sell. There is nothing wrong with helping your fellow enthusiasts (as I have sold some reloading supplies over the past year to friends of mine way below market value as a favor) however being angry at them for making a profit because you are unprepared is unreasonable.

With that said the best way to stop the current flipping with new product has been stated here scores of times & that is to stop buying from them. I have purchased a fair amount at prices higher than I would have liked (still way cheaper than factory 9mm) when I was down to my "low water mark" but only from retailers. The market would stabilize much faster if all the retailers were selling for market value, the current flipping would stop & prices would creep down to market value (what a reasonable seller & reasonable buyer agree upon). The new values will likely be higher than pre-panic prices. I found a box of .38sp at the range from Galyans marked $7.99.

Some may say that the prices will plummet like AR parts however I do not believe this will be the case, I consider firearms hard or durable goods, ammo is a consumable & people are consuming more ammo than ever before. Yes some are packing it away but there are many more shooters out there & there are many old shooters that have had a renewed interest, such as myself over the past 3-4 years.

There are many reasons to "prep", Shibumseeker made very good points as to why.

There is a parable of 10 virgins & wisdom in it.

ok, rant over.

 

[billt]

"Shelf life" of ammunition that has been properly stored is not a factor, and never has been. I shoot ammo that is 20+ years old all the time. I have reloads from the 70's that perform like they were made yesterday. Some of the finest surplus .30-06 ammo obtainable, is the Greek HXP ammo the CMP sold. Most all of it is 1960's vintage.

 

[jcwit]

AA&E It sounds as if hornadylnl is one of those "fair share" proponents.

 

[jcwit]

Some here need to read up on what the true meaning of "fair market value" truly is.

Fair market value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fair market value (FMV) is an estimate of the market value of a property, based on what a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured buyer would probably pay to a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured seller in the market. An estimate of fair market value may be founded either on precedent or extrapolation. Fair market value differs from the intrinsic value that an individual may place on the same asset based on their own preferences and circumstances.
Since market transactions are often not observable for assets such as privately held businesses and most personal and real property, FMV must be estimated. An estimate of Fair Market Value is usually subjective due to the circumstances of place, time, the existence of comparable precedents, and the evaluation principles of each involved person. Opinions on value are always based upon subjective interpretation of available information at the time of assessment. This is in contrast to an imposed value, in which a legal authority (law, tax regulation, court, etc.) sets an absolute value upon a product or a service.

 

[hornadylnl]

Hold up there champ... don't you mean $75 worth? It's one way or the other.... it can't be both depending on which way the wind is blowing.

$75, that's enough to allow poor ammo starved children to shoot for a decade.

Obviously my ammo bank was lost on you.

The year is 2012 and 22 ammo is aplenty. Johnny and Billy each have $100 of expendable income. Friday, Johnny buys a 6 pack of pbr and the rest on ammo. Billy buys a 50 round box, shoots it up and spends the rest on hookers and blow. Now after Sandy Hook, Johnny has a veritable stockpile and Billy can't find any without severely cutting into his hookers and blow budget. He now thinks Johnny should sell him his ammo at his cost.

They each prioritized their spending according to their desires. I'm Johnny and I tell Billy to **** off.

 

[dieselrealtor]

Some here need to read up on what the true meaning of "fair market value" truly is.

Fair market value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fair market value (FMV) is an estimate of the market value of a property, based on what a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured buyer would probably pay to a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured seller in the market. An estimate of fair market value may be founded either on precedent or extrapolation. Fair market value differs from the intrinsic value that an individual may place on the same asset based on their own preferences and circumstances.
Since market transactions are often not observable for assets such as privately held businesses and most personal and real property, FMV must be estimated. An estimate of Fair Market Value is usually subjective due to the circumstances of place, time, the existence of comparable precedents, and the evaluation principles of each involved person. Opinions on value are always based upon subjective interpretation of available information at the time of assessment. This is in contrast to an imposed value, in which a legal authority (law, tax regulation, court, etc.) sets an absolute value upon a product or a service.

I believe this can be paraphrased as I listed above, what a reasonable seller & reasonable buyer agree upon. Many buyers in the current market are under a self imposed duress, which excludes them from the definition.