22 TCM Single stack range report

[NHT3]

I finally got a chance to make time at Parabellum to shoot the new TCM a little and take some pics.. Overall impression of the pistol is impressive for the cost, $629 + tax.
Very accurate but I tend to "toss" one every now and again. I think it has something to do with the fireball from the muzzle and the noise.. I recently put an AR pistol together (10.5" barrel) and it seems to me that the TCM has more muzzle flash and is louder than the short barrel AR.
I had to shoot 3 groups (@ 7 yards) before I had a 10 shot group that I didn't toss one. Recoil is what I would call just above a 22LR and effort to retract the slide is , again much like a 22LR pistol. Mag holds 10 rounds and the mags are a little hard to get at the moment. I was a little disappointed that it only came with 1 mag but I can live with that for the time being. I swapped out the trigger for a straight trigger that I had been wanting to test out on a 1911 to see how I would like it. So far I do like the straight trigger. I also removed the mag well, deleted the ambi safety, installed a single side safety and added a Wilson sear spring to lighten the trigger.
Ammo is about the same cost as 45ACP and muzzle energy from the 40 GR bullet @ 2000 FPS rivals the 45 ACP.
Pic of the pistol and the one 10 shot group (that I managed not to toss one) is below.. Other than the noise I don't see a down side to these pistols and there are so many pluses that I think they will be a big seller for RIA.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

Cool. Where are you getting your ammo?

 

[LEaSH]

Is it possible 9mm single stack mags will work in this?I was tempted to buy one of the combos that had one double stack mag to use between the two calibers, but I like your single stack better.

 

[NHT3]

LEaSH.. Standard 9MM mags won't work. The TCM cartridge is a bit longer than a normal 9, just enough that it's a different mag.. RIA told me at the NRA convention that the mag was the hold up on the single stack delivery at the time..
It's my understanding that the mag is the same width as the 45 mag. I have a 5" double stack that is on the block at the moment. Like you I prefer the single stack that being the reason the double stack is in the used case at Parabellum.
Ammo is off of Gunbroker or directly from Armscor.

NRA Life Member-- GSSF member
Ruger MK III, M&P & 1911mechanic
NRA Basic pistol instructor – Certified Glock armorer

 

[LEaSH]

Thanks NHT3.

I was really hoping the 9mm and .22TCM shared OAL or were dimensionally similar.

Your old double stack kit combo was sold with one magazine, though?

 

[Bigtanker]

Last time I was in ZX gun in Goshen, they stocked the ammo.

 

[GingerKid]

Do they still give you a 9mm barrel with the single stack or is that the double stack only? I've thought about picking one of these up to learn some amateur gunsmithing and 1911 tuning. I was just going to find a 9mm only gun, but the 22 TCM definitely intrigues me

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I have two of the double stack ones - and I've got to say that the single stack intrigues me.

GingerKid - from what I've read the single stacks have a 9mm barrel as well. NHT3 will have to confirm that.

 

[NHT3]

Do they still give you a 9mm barrel with the single stack or is that the double stack only? I've thought about picking one of these up to learn some amateur gunsmithing and 1911 tuning. I was just going to find a 9mm only gun, but the 22 TCM definitely intrigues me

To my surprise the single stack came with the 9MM barrel also.. I don't have that much interest in it but I'll probably put it in and give it a test run one of these days.. I know on the double stack pistols the point of impact changes drastically when changing barrels.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT]
Ruger MK III, M&P & 1911mechanic
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] –[/FONT] Certified Glock armorer

 

[Toolepqk]

A 38 super magazine may work for the 22tcm round.

 

[Jeremy1066]

Did you use the CT for that 10 shot group?

Charlie, do you see any defensive applications for the TCM round? Or is it just a fun-gun?

 

[NHT3]

Did you use the CT for that 10 shot group?

Charlie, do you see any defensive applications for the TCM round? Or is it just a fun-gun?

Of course I shot the group with the CT grips.. When you see two front sights it's advantageous to move your point of focus out to the target, it improves your accuracy dramatically. As I've said previously, this is more fun to shoot than anything I own but I don't look on it as just a fun toy. Personally I do see defensive applications for the round but I'm certainly no expert on terminal ballistics. I would be curious to get someone with some real world experience (AKA BehindBlueIs) opinion on that.
Vid below that might help you make your own decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UZWRsUXZWc

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Personally I do see defensive applications for the round but I'm certainly no expert on terminal ballistics. I would be curious to get someone with some real world experience (AKA BehindBlueIs) opinion on that.
Vid below that might help you make your own decision

I'm skeptical, but since I haven't seen one used in the wild I can't say for sure. I will completely dismiss any testing using non-calibrated gel. The wrong consistency can dramatically affect the results.

Generally light weight high velocity bullets have a tough time with bone, either deflecting easily and "riding" a rib or skull, breaking the bone but then failing to penetrate further, or worst of all, simply lodging against the bone and doing minimal damage. Perhaps the TCM is fast enough to over come that, perhaps it isn't. The wound channel is smaller and the hollowpoint makes a mushroom shape, not a sharp flower shape. That could translate into less tissue destroyed, less trauma, and less blood loss. Does it obtain the velocities needed for a permanent stretch cavity? In some types of organs, absolutely, but in muscle tissue? The bullet seemed to hold together well, but will it do so after a bone strike? Heavy clothing? A raised forearm and then air gap before entering the torso? I don't have the answers for that.

If those questions could be addressed, if I could find out if the extreme velocity overcomes the general issues one runs into with low mass projectiles, then we could make a better decision. Personally, I don't field test new equipment in live fire situations. I'm a slow adapter and will let "test pilots" risk their safety before I decide if I believe its an improvement or not over existing options.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

BBI - I understand your hesitation, and I appreciate your approach to the situation. Having shot a lot of different stuff - this is one round that I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of.
That said - does it have enough speed to make it more like the 5.56 AR-15 round? Which obviously has enough speed to cut the mustard. Or does it not. It's certainly a fair question.

 

[NHT3]

I can say that it has enough speed to penetrate the current Kevlar US military helmet.. I'm not sure where it came from but a friend had a piece of a helmet and it zipped right through it. I've seen enough of it that when I can get a spare mag I won't hesitate to carry it if I don't mind being weighted down with an all steel 1911.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT]
Ruger MK III, M&P & 1911mechanic
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] –[/FONT] Certified Glock armorer

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I would love it if they made a Kahr CM9 ish clone that fired 22TCM... it would be a mighty fun carry gun. I guess the single stacks are moving in that direction... but they are not down to "pocket gun" size yet.

 

[JTF101]

Rural King in Fort Wayne stocks the ammo @ $24 a box.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I can say that it has enough speed to penetrate the current Kevlar US military helmet.. I'm not sure where it came from but a friend had a piece of a helmet and it zipped right through it.

Is the ability to defeat Kevlar worth the trade off of a smaller wound channel? Which is more likely to result in a faster incapacitation in the most likely scenario for self defense you would face?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

That said - does it have enough speed to make it more like the 5.56 AR-15 round? Which obviously has enough speed to cut the mustard. Or does it not. It's certainly a fair question.

Its running at about 2/3 the speed of 5.56mm. The importance of a temporary cavity, and at what speeds it occurs, are far from settled science as near as I can tell. Tumbling and fragmenting seem to cause more damage than the stretch cavity, although a stretch cavity can allow bone to move more after a fracture, increasing damage to the skeletal structure. Studies have had .223 bullets being test fired at speeds of 5,000fps into animals to study it and different studies have had different conclusions. I certainly don't know better than the guys with the educational backgrounds and lab resources to test that sort of thing. That's why I want to see real life shootings before committing.

 

[cctwcc]

All great info and appreciated.. I've been considering a 22TCM and helps me make up my mind.