1st AR15 build, between 10.5" pistol or 16"carbine, recommendations please

[ffemoeller]

This will be a home defense gun as well as a "truck" gun. I travel 100 mi 1 way for work, and every 3rd day I'm away from home for 24hrs. This gun will come with me packed away in the go bag. 10.5" pistol makes sense to me for both purposes, but I don't want to rule out a basic carbine either. What are some things I should consider? Budget is $650-700 tops. Low profile free float tube, no fixed iron sights for sure. Haven't ruled out paying Mr Fed his $200 tax for an SBR down the road.

 

[wsenefeld]

With your budget being limited to $700, I'd go with a 16" rifle. A 10.5" would be fine if you had a little extra in your budget to tinker with it if doesn't cycle perfectly, right out of the box.

Unless you find your upper/lower preassembled (deals from Palmetto), might be hard to find quality parts while keeping it under $700 AND getting your free float.

 

[Jeremy1066]

I think you are going to have a hard time meeting that $700 budget if you include a decent FF handguard. If its a home defense/truck gun, I'm curious as to why you need a FF handguard and no fixed sights? Does your $700 budget include an optic of some kind since you don't want iron sights? I don't think you will notice the benefits of a FF handguard with your intended purpose.

 

[Jeremy1066]

And welcome to INGO.

 

[ffemoeller]

Yeah, looks like this is going to be more of a $800 build all said and done. Guess I was a little too optimistic. Definitely going with the 10.5.

 

[teddy12b]

This will be a home defense gun as well as a "truck" gun. I travel 100 mi 1 way for work, and every 3rd day I'm away from home for 24hrs. This gun will come with me packed away in the go bag. 10.5" pistol makes sense to me for both purposes, but I don't want to rule out a basic carbine either. What are some things I should consider? Budget is $650-700 tops. Low profile free float tube, no fixed iron sights for sure. Haven't ruled out paying Mr Fed his $200 tax for an SBR down the road.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade because it sounds like you want a SBR more so than you would want a 16" just for the sake of having a SBR. I've never owned an AR less than 16", but I've been around several AR 10" - 12" SBR's and "pistol" builds. These AR's I'm referring to weren't put together by rookies and weren't cheapo budget builds. These were AR's put together by guys who beat on their equipment and actually get their pretty guns all dirty and scratched up like AR's were intended to be used. All of the shorter than 16" AR's I've seen have had major mechanical problems. The shorter barrel changes the functionality of the gun entirely. I get that they look cool, but if you've got it in your head that this rifle may be a life saving device from harm, then I'd go with something more tried and true.

Free floating a barrel that short doesn't make any sense in my mind. There's just no benefit with such a short barrel. No iron sights is a personal choice, but you can bet your life on decent irons, are you going to put a red dot on the rifle that's a life gambling quality on it?

Not trying to talk you out of what it sounds like you want, but I just want to give you my honest opinion based on what I've seen. Have you considered getting a 14.5" barrel with a pinned on flash hider? Here's a kit that I find myself looking at from time to time because I think it'd make an amazing truck gun. PSA 14.7" CHF Mid A2 Pinned Rifle Kit

 

[avboiler11]

JoeBobOutfitters has 10.5" Radical Firearms uppers with Seekins FF rails for $399 shipped...that is PLENTY of cheddar remaining to get a pistol lower.

Also, 10.5" 5.56 barrels have carbine gas systems, whereas 7.5" 5.56 run pistol gas (and can be problematic).

 

[THE BIG SITT]

I am selling my 10.5" Seekins/Radical Firearms upper this evening. I loved it, just realized I would rather use the nearly $500 is would cost to SBR my pistol on another gun. You also have to consider the stock and receiver extension, the cost of engraving, and the cost of forming a trust (if you're going that route).

I would definately reccomend a 10.5" over the 7.5" for the reason avboiler11 said. You could theoretically swap a 10.5" upper with a 16" upper if you so desired.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

look into the .300 blackout for your pistol. 9" 1:7 barrel

 

[Hop]

A 5.56mm 10" home defense gun will blow out your ear drums if fired inside a house. Better start saving up for a suppressor too. If it's your 1st AR and you're getting a suppressor it might as well be a 300 BLK.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

damn straight

 

[JollyMon]

I'm not trying to rain on your parade because it sounds like you want a SBR more so than you would want a 16" just for the sake of having a SBR. I've never owned an AR less than 16", but I've been around several AR 10" - 12" SBR's and "pistol" builds. These AR's I'm referring to weren't put together by rookies and weren't cheapo budget builds. These were AR's put together by guys who beat on their equipment and actually get their pretty guns all dirty and scratched up like AR's were intended to be used. All of the shorter than 16" AR's I've seen have had major mechanical problems. The shorter barrel changes the functionality of the gun entirely. I get that they look cool, but if you've got it in your head that this rifle may be a life saving device from harm, then I'd go with something more tried and true.

Free floating a barrel that short doesn't make any sense in my mind. There's just no benefit with such a short barrel. No iron sights is a personal choice, but you can bet your life on decent irons, are you going to put a red dot on the rifle that's a life gambling quality on it?

Not trying to talk you out of what it sounds like you want, but I just want to give you my honest opinion based on what I've seen. Have you considered getting a 14.5" barrel with a pinned on flash hider? Here's a kit that I find myself looking at from time to time because I think it'd make an amazing truck gun. PSA 14.7" CHF Mid A2 Pinned Rifle Kit

Though I do get your point about shorter barrels. In reality anything under 11.5" is where I seen most people start to experience issues. I wouldn't stray a person away from a SBR, but finding the correct combination of parts requires a bit more work. And in my opinion there is no reason why an decent length SBR AR (10-13) will not run as good as a 16" AR. I have never had an issue with my AR 10.3" SBR build. I purchased a factory upper from DD and paired it with the correct buffer (what most people recommended online) and it has ran like a champ.

Free floating does make sense with an SBR.... but more for the fact that you have more area to locate your hand in different positions and being able rest the hand guard on items for aiming (ie, hood of a car, against a tree) without affecting accuracy. If you were stuck with a standard carbine handguard, it gets much more difficult, regardless of an SBR vs 16".

 

[teddy12b]

Though I do get your point about shorter barrels. In reality anything under 11.5" is where I seen most people start to experience issues. I wouldn't stray a person away from a SBR, but finding the correct combination of parts requires a bit more work. And in my opinion there is no reason why an decent length SBR AR (10-13) will not run as good as a 16" AR. I have never had an issue with my AR 10.3" SBR build. I purchased a factory upper from DD and paired it with the correct buffer (what most people recommended online) and it has ran like a champ.

Free floating does make sense with an SBR.... but more for the fact that you have more area to locate your hand in different positions and being able rest the hand guard on items for aiming (ie, hood of a car, against a tree) without affecting accuracy. If you were stuck with a standard carbine handguard, it gets much more difficult, regardless of an SBR vs 16".

I get what you're saying on the your SBR being reliable. My only question would be to ask if your SBR is within the price range the OP was talking about? I'm happy for you either way, but I think a lot of guys get themselves into trouble when they start looking for the cheapest build possible and start nickle and dimeing parts and pieces together instead of getting it right. The guys I know all had solid backgrounds and had spent the $$ to have gotten it right the first time and it still didn't work out for them. I wish it wasn't the case, and that all AR's ran like they're supposed with anyones parts in them but that's not always the case. I'm glad yours is running good, and I'd love to play with one that actually worked.

I never thought of the free floating for extended gripping space. I should have considered that since I like to run dissipator AR's just because I like a longer sight radius and the extra room to grab the rifle myself.

In the big picture of things, I still just don't know if I would ever get into the short barreled guns. I get that they look cool, but things definitely get more complicated the shorter the barrel gets. If a 14.5" with pinned flash hider doesn't do it for me I don't know what going much shorter is going to get me.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

If going through Radical Firearms, they have a coupon code "JUST4HIM" that is good for 10% off. It is a Valentine's promo, so I'm not sure how long it will last.

 

[rvb]

I agree that 10.5"-11.5" and over when NOT using bargain bin parts are usually easy to get running.
you can make most bargain bin 14.5"+ guns run w/ little effort.
under 10.5"-11.5" and you have to be prepared to do some tinkering, especially if using bargain bin parts.

My 12.5" has been awesome and runs perfect. (A5 RE/buffer system and adjustable gas really help smooth it out. definitely NOT a budget build).

As to WHY go shorter than 16"? Because silencer. both weight & length. W/o the can I doubt I'd have gone shorter, either. My 12.5" gun w/ a .308 can is about 1" longer than a 16" gun w/ a flash hider. It still ballances great, I can keep the gun shouldered and on target while doing mag changes, it doesn't drag the can on the ground when slung, etc. When I mount the can on my 16" gun, it's the equivalent of having a ~23" barrel w/ a big weight on the end, very awkward and front heavy.

w/o the can, the 12.5" gun is very light, which is a nice feature in itself. I use 10" FF handguards on it.
w. the can on and the gas dialed down so it just locks back on empty mag, it's like shooting airsoft... and is SO much fun....

-rvb

 

[lewisjt]

If its your first, I'd go the pinned 14.5 route.
If sbr go with 11.5 especially if you plan on a lot of shooting. 10.5 can/will become problematic.
Remember its a pain in the a$$ to travel with NFA items. The 14.5 will serve ya just fine.

 

[rvb]

If its your first, I'd go the pinned 14.5 route.

imo, if it's a first, go w/ a 16". pinned muzzle devices are a PITA and costly if you ever want to change something on the top end of your gun. If you had the experience and KNOW you'll never change anything, fine. but in the long run it's almost as cost effective to SBR it than later change something and have to replace a muzzle device, pay for the pin/weld work, etc.



-rvb

 

[avboiler11]

imo, if it's a first, go w/ a 16". pinned muzzle devices are a PITA and costly if you ever want to change something on the top end of your gun. If you had the experience and KNOW you'll never change anything, fine. but in the long run it's almost as cost effective to SBR it than later change something and have to replace a muzzle device, pay for the pin/weld work, etc.



-rvb

Why not simply replace and sell the barrel with pinned muzzle device?

 

[rvb]

Why not simply replace and sell the barrel with pinned muzzle device?

it's all just $. sure why not.
if the muzzle device is pinned, that means you aren't taking off the gas block or barrel nut, so you're going to have to sell all that with it, too, probably at a loss from what you paid for it, and buy it all again. then you're going to have to re-pin/weld your new top end parts. if there is even a chance you're going to want to change something, don't go w/ a perm attached muzzle device, unless you like spending extra $ for no reason.

I entertained the idea when I built my 12.5." after all, why deal w/ the NFA registration and $200 for 2", right? Until I realized a change later would cost me $70 for adco to remove/re-pin&weld PLUS the cost to replace the silencer mount ($100-$150) if I ever needed to change something, so I might as well pay the $200 and SBR it.

-rvb

 

[JollyMon]

If it were my FIRST AR build, I would go 16" + . There are less laws to know and more kits available to keep you in your price range. You can loan it out to friends, can keep it in the car (if your significant other doesnt have LTCH), and you can travel to other states without asking permission. There are benefits to having an SBR but starting out, just go for the basics.