Your bug out gun? what do you grab?

[Richard]

Lots of valid points for the shotgun for sure. I'd be interested in the weight myself as well? Does anyone remember the CCI 'shotshells' for .22? I know they still sell them. What I was thinking was, do they make those for .357? And could that be shot out of a lever gun?
Or I think the Rossi, .22/ 410 combo has merit. Very little in the way of parts to replace, both would cover a variety of needs. Doesn't a company make a 12 gauge and .... something combo like that?

I got into my ammunition locker and loaded up both an AR & AK magazine, weighed them both along with a box of 25 shells.

The loaded 30 round aluminum AR magazine was the lightest of the bunch (no real surprise there) at 462 grams total weight.

The heavier loaded 30 round steel AK magazine, weighed in at almost twice that at 821 grams total weight.

And finally the 25 shells of 2 3/4" 00 buckshot weighed in at a whopping 1237 grams, which is almost 3 times as heavy as the AR magazine & almost a 1/4th heavier than the AK magazine.

However it should be noted that the single 25 round box of 00 shells contains a total of two hundred & twenty five (225) .30 caliber projectiles.

Anyway I used to use those shotshell things for snakes and frogs and such but they really arnt much good past 8'-10' or so, but yea those combo rifles are ideal for survivalists who don't expect to be encountering any &/or many uninvited guests in their area of operation (neck of the woods).

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

M1 Garand, and a few bandoleers. Accuracy and lots of ass behind a nice .30 bullet. It also helps that this is really the only rifle that has gotten much love lately. Plus I have tons of the stuff packed in bandoleers, that always helps.


So yeah, I'll go old school.

 

[wtfd661]

My Ruger Mini 14. Its one of the new ones with the heavier barrel and all weather stock, shoots both .223 & 556. Its a great gun for me. Might even try to sneak in my Glock 26.

 

[Richard]

Whiskeytangofoxtrot,

M1 Garand huh? that was my Grandfathers weapon of choice to, I however soured on them back when I was a kid.

My father & Grandfather thought it would be funny to teach me a lesson & allowed me to have my thumb "Garanded" on my very first outing/loading of my Grandfathers Garand.

Anyway that lesson of theirs turned my 10 year old thumb, black and blue for a whole week & I've never given Garands a second look in the 30 years since it happened.

WTF661,

I've always liked Mini's - especially the stainless ones, years and years and years ago my uncle had a customized "pump" alteration done on his that worked the bolt for quick clearing of any malfunctions, it was very tacticool even before tactical was cool.

 

[WETSU]

Well, once again, mission dictates gear, and the "bug out" situation is a bit foggy from the original poster, thus we all envision our own SHTF/bugout scenario. Clearly some of you are thinking survival/hunting and some of you are thinking zombies/shoot outs with red Dawn paratroops. Then you all seem to be going back and forth between using one gun to do both. (apples vs oranges).

Okay, with that said, I normally have a G19 and spare mag on me all the time. I guess I'd be "grabbing" that.

However, if the SHTF (by my definition) I'm grabbing my primary AK and chest rig. I am not worrying about foraging for food or hunting at that point. I want something to fight with. Something I can use to engage enemy riflemen out to 300 meters with accuracy. Something that will punch through cars, plaster walls, cinderblock, and door frames. Something that will run with snow, mud, dust and sand in it. Something that will run with a mixed bag of ammo. Something I can use to buttstroke a man with. Something I can bang around getting in and out of a vehicle quickly. Something I can hide underwater or swim with. Something I can bury and dig up a week later and use immediatly. Something I can train a moron to use (insert comments here).

I don't think there is a "do everything" gun out there that will accomplish all of the mission parameters in a SHTF situation. (loosely set up to include hunting, fighting, concealable in non permisive environments, durability, ammo loadout or compatibility etc) So I look at the downsids of failure in one or more of those parameters. Failure to bag a squirrel with an AK means I don't eat that day. Failure to successfully engage an enemy shooter at 200 meters with my shotgun, means I die. I'll take a rifle and take my risks on wasting a lot of meat per shot on the hunting side of the equation.

My $.02.

 

[Sailor]

You will be fine with your shot gun till you run up against someone with an rifle, unless you are in a dense urban area.

 

[mospeada]

These posts always get me, everyone thinks when you bug out you're gonna be all Red Dawn killing Ruskies or at the very least Socialists, so grab the AK or AR and lug that sucker around, YEE HAW!

Myself, a .22 rifle or a levergun of a more potent caliber (.357?) would be my choice. I know how to work on those and they don't require the maintenance like an AR. This of course is assuming I merely have to survive on the land and not take up arms against the Red Hoard. By all means, I'd want the AR for that. Zombies!?! Definitely the Shotgun with my bandolier. Aliens? I bring them all, just throw them in the wheel barrow and set off for oblivion.

 

[agentl074]

AR-10 Carbine - when you just need to reach out and touch pesky zombies - tearing them up right

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

Whiskeytangofoxtrot,

M1 Garand huh? that was my Grandfathers weapon of choice to, I however soured on them back when I was a kid.

My father & Grandfather thought it would be funny to teach me a lesson & allowed me to have my thumb "Garanded" on my very first outing/loading of my Grandfathers Garand.

Anyway that lesson of theirs turned my 10 year old thumb, black and blue for a whole week & I've never given Garands a second look in the 30 years since it happened.

Practice, Practice, Practice! Once you try you can throw another clip in in no time at all!!!! I learned the hard way, let it happen once, and you'll never let it happen again.

 

[shooter521]

Shooter,

25 yards? LOL I suggest that you try shooting 12 gauge 00 buck at some man-sized targets at 100 yards

Been there, done it, wasn't impressed. I'll take solid, well-placed hits with a rifle over "you might get a few pellets somewhere on the target" any day of the week. No shotgun instructor I know of advocates using buckshot at 100 yards; I figure that's a pretty good clue. Also, consider how little energy a pellet of 00 Buck will have at 100 yards, vs. a rifle caliber.

There's some good reading here under "The Effectiveness Dilemma":
Shotgun

But yea I'll agree that slapping a magazine into an AK is generally a little quicker than slanking 9 shells into a shotgun is

Bonus points for use of the word "slanking".

 

[Richard]

Been there, done it, wasn't impressed. I'll take solid, well-placed hits with a rifle over "you might get a few pellets somewhere on the target" any day of the week. No shotgun instructor I know of advocates using buckshot at 100 yards; I figure that's a pretty good clue. Also, consider how little energy a pellet of 00 Buck will have at 100 yards, vs. a rifle caliber.

There's some good reading here under "The Effectiveness Dilemma":
Shotgun



Bonus points for use of the word "slanking".

Find me a shotgun instructor who'll stand at the 100 yard mark and let someone take a shot at him with 00 buck, I am guessing that you probably wont find any willing volunteers.

Now don't get me wrong I am not advocating 00 buck for engagements at 100 yards, slugs are much better suited for that, I am mearly attempting to make the point that it is extremely unwise for folks to underestimate the reach of a shotgun loaded with buckshot.

Now as to some folks very valid concerns about "what if" engagements of 200, 300 yard ranges, personally I don't plan on engaging any hostiles at those ranges, this is Indiana so thankfully cover is extremely plentiful (unless your caught in the middle of a large corn field in early spring or late fall/winter) so my first instinctive reaction would be "escape & evasion" (regardless of what weapon is in my hand), so surviving the encounter would be my first priority if I am engaged from a distance by hostiles.

Remember I am a survivalist trying to stave off starvation for me and my family, keeping them fed & safe during some sort of food shortage scenario/crisis is my number one priority, I would not become some sort of soldier attempting to capture or kill members of an opposing force of some kind.

I guess it boils down to: I would only engage hostiles if "escape & evasion" for me & my family is no longer a viable option.

 

[jeremy]

Almost anything you can kill with a shotgun you can also kill with a rifle and from a much greater range. Increasing your food gathering ability.

 

[Richard]

You will be fine with your shot gun till you run up against someone with an rifle, unless you are in a dense urban area.

Or in a wooded/forested area.

It's pretty hard to engage or be engaged at 200, 300 yards if there is a bunch of trees & underbrush blocking both your line of sight & your bullets trajectory.

Oh don't get me wrong I am not oblivious to the advantages that the various rifle platforms bring to the table (I do own several rifles of various configurations & calibers) but for my intended purposes, my Mossberg 590 shotgun is the correct tool for the job.

 

[jeremy]

Most people tend to overestimate what a shotgun can really do.

 

[Richard]

Almost anything you can kill with a shotgun you can also kill with a rifle and from a much greater range. Increasing your food gathering ability.

Jeremy,

Yes, shooting fast moving ie: running, hopping, scurrying up a tree or flying small game with a rifle can most certainly be accomplished by an experienced hunter.

In fact I often take a .22LR rifle or pistol instead of a shotgun for hunting small game (its more sporting), but I know from experience that I could gather more meat with one of my shotguns, in alot less time.

 

[The Meach]

My 870 and a Backpacks worth of Shells lol

 

[Richard]

Most people tend to overestimate what a shotgun can really do.

Jeremey,

Overestimate like how?

You do realize that shotguns are regularly used to kill everything from other men to bears to elks to deer to geese to ducks to raccoons to woodchucks to rabbits to birds to squirrels & to even those little cute chipmonks?

By simply changing the shell in the shotguns chamber you can successfully harvest just about anything that walks, scurries, flys or crawls on this entire continent.

 

[jeremy]

Oh I am firmly aware of what a gauge can do effectively and how useful they can be. I am not meaning to take away from shotguns just playing devils advocate.

Overestimate like how...

Let me see like 00 Buck IS effective at 100 yards. Or how about you just have to point in the general direction at closer ranges. Or how about with a slug it is the best choice for a brush gun.

You really have to shake your head at what some people seem to believe a gauge can accomplish.

 

[Joe Williams]

The strength of shotguns lie in their unmatched versatility. Rifles can't come close to being as useful on a wide variety of targets inside 100 yards. I chose a .22, but that's because I don't have my own shotgun yet, and .22 ammo weighs nothing compared to significant quantities of shotgun ammo. Besides, if we were forced to bug out and try to get to friends or family, my wife and son would each have their 20 gauges to go along with my lil .22. Fighting is something we'd try awfully hard to avoid in a bug out situation. Actually, being seen at all is something we'd be trying to avoid LOl.

 

[Richard]

Oh I am firmly aware of what a gauge can do effectively and how useful they can be. I am not meaning to take away from shotguns just playing devils advocate.

Overestimate like how...

Let me see like 00 Buck IS effective at 100 yards. Or how about you just have to point in the general direction at closer ranges. Or how about with a slug it is the best choice for a brush gun.

You really have to shake your head at what some people seem to believe a gauge can accomplish.

Jeremy,

There seems to be some confusion here about the point I was attempting to make about 00 buckshot's reach.

I distinctly remember saying that the 00 buckshot's spread would be to widely dispersed for any sort of accuracy & thus no good for hunting purposes at that range, however I was trying to make the point that those widely dispersed .30 caliber balls would still kill or injure someone (depending on where they struck) at 100 yards if you pointed the shotgun at them & pulled the trigger.

We can argue over the definition of the word "effective" if you'd like but I thought that my previous comments clearly noted the limitations & random chanceness of the strikes on the target at that range.

Wait one moment & I'll go fetch my previous statement:

Shooter,

25 yards? LOL I suggest that you try shooting 12 gauge 00 buck at some man-sized targets at 100 yards, granted the pattern will be too greatly dispersed for "hunting purposes" but you'll still get a few hits on that target & on a thin skinned (& will'd) critter like a man that should be enough to either kill them (depending on where they hit) or at the very least take the fight out of them.