WOW! WWII, why we needed to drop 2 A-bombs, facts you did not learn in school.

[steveh_131]

If you find that interesting you must find paint drying absolutely riveting. If you don't understand the difference between the events of 9/11 and the dropping of the Atomic bombs on Japan, a Nation that we were formally at war with there is really nothing I can steer you to to help you other than spend less time with Howard Zinn and Michael Moore and more time with a History book. Good luck in your search for truth.

So? Let's hear it? What is the situational difference that makes one act morally acceptable and the other morally repugnant?

I am open-minded on the subject

 

[CarmelHP]

So? Let's hear it? What is the situational difference that makes one act morally acceptable and the other morally repugnant?

I am open-minded on the subject

Since you're the one throwing it out there, let's hear the case for moral equivalence first, then we can "cross-examine" it.

 

[steveh_131]

Since you're the one throwing it out there, let's hear the case for moral equivalence first, then we can "cross-examine" it.

In both instances, large numbers of civilians were killed in order to make a point.

 

[CarmelHP]

In both instances, large numbers of civilians were killed in order to make a point.

Ah...yeah...I think we see the problem here...on that same basis, 9/11 and the Holocaust are morally equivalent actions also.

 

[indiucky]

So? Let's hear it? What is the situational difference that makes one act morally acceptable and the other morally repugnant?

I am open-minded on the subject

One act caused the deaths of untold numbers of Muslims in the Middle East, the loss of thousands of Allied service men and women along with a tremendous amount of capital.

One act saved the lives of untold number of Allied service men and countless Japanese civilians and brought a backward Nation into the Atomic Age so they could listen to rock and roll, drink bourbon, make transistor radios and become a top economic world player with technological advances that seem beyond our wildest dreams. This from a people (pre bomb) that actually thought their Emperor decended from the Sun's vagina.

I am paraphrasing ofcourse. There are books on the subject that can explain it much better than this simple, hillbilly, college droput can. It's just history and it's pretty easy to find.

Oh. And we also ended up with Akira Kurosowa movies...That in itself is a wonderful byproduct of a total ass kicking on Japan...It's funny that the best western themed films ever made come from post war Italy and Japan.

One is an act that started a war and one is an act that ended a war. Whether it is a good thing depends on how much you like war and death. If you are into that then I don't know what else to tell you. We are still fighting the War that started 9/11 and there seems to be no end in sight while the dropping of the Atomic bombs nipped (pardon the pun) Japan's desire to be a warlike Nation and ended their 30 year plus reign of destruction in the Pacific. I heard rumors what Chinese where left in Nanking gave a feeble "Hip, Hip, Hooray" when they heard about the bombs but that is just a rumor. There were so few left after Japan's occupation that I imagine it was a pretty low key.

 

[octalman]

There's nothing more unAmerican than questioning the deaths of 200,000 innocent civilians.

The usual suspects - US is immoral, always wrong, a bully, and the root of all evil in the world. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

 

[cobber]

Ah...yeah...I think we see the problem here...on that same basis, 9/11 and the Holocaust are morally equivalent actions also.

That is basically what he is saying. Why am I not astonished?

Well don't like Ike fool ya, he had plans to drop h-(not a) bombs on Russia and china during the Korean War.

There was some chatter about doing the same to Vietnam in the 1950s...

 

[cobber]

.

 

[steveh_131]

Ah...yeah...I think we see the problem here...on that same basis, 9/11 and the Holocaust are morally equivalent actions also.

You told me to offer an argument for moral equivalence, so that you could cross-examine. I offered mine.

Now, tell me why they are different?

One act caused the deaths of untold numbers of Muslims in the Middle East, the loss of thousands of Allied service men and women along with a tremendous amount of capital.

One act saved the lives of untold number of Allied service men and countless Japanese civilians and brought a backward Nation into the Atomic Age so they could listen to rock and roll, drink bourbon, make transistor raidos and become a top economic world player with technological advances that seem beyond our wildest dreams. This from a people (pre bomb) that actually thought their Emperor decended from the Sun's vagina.

I see. So basically, the ends justify the means?

Had 9/11 ultimately resulted in a better world, you would have found it to be morally acceptable?

 

[rambone]

So, because the actual technical aspects of the bombing being warned about were not spelled out in meticulous detail, and the Japanese government prohibited possession of the warnings anyway, it is the Allies and the U.S. that is to blame? Do you try to come up with wacky assertions just to see who blinks?

If the government deliberately intended to maximize innocent civilian casualties, I think we ought to know about it.

 

[zippy23]

Why didnt they surrender after the first bomb? Seems like lots of people on here say the japs wanted to surrender before the bombs were dropped? Really?? They attacked us at pearl harbor right? So if you ask me, we should have done everything and anything we can to destroy the threat and end the people that did this. war is war, we won, if you dont like how we won, should we have lost the war just so some people can be happy? thank god this country did what it needed to do. i feel no pity for a country that did what japan did at that time. ZERO. look what pitty is doing-AFGHANISTAN, IRAQ................GET IT???

 

[lucky4034]

The usual suspects - US is immoral, always wrong, a bully, and the root of all evil in the world. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

I wonder if the citizens of Rome were taught that they were "the light"?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

If the government deliberately intended to maximize innocent civilian casualties, I think we ought to know about it.

IF the US Gov't intended to maximize Japanese civilian casualties in WWII, they'd have continued fire-bombing.

 

[lucky4034]

IF the US Gov't intended to maximize Japanese civilian casualties in WWII, they'd have continued fire-bombing.

Correction... they would have hit Tokyo and Kyoto as originally planned. I think the fact that they didn't shows that they had their limitations.

I'm not sure that dropping those bombs was the best thing for the US to do... or even necessary. I'm not sure entering the war in that matter was the best thing to do. But it surely put a stop to a what may have been a long and expensive war had they not dropped them.

 

[CarmelHP]

You told me to offer an argument for moral equivalence, so that you could cross-examine. I offered mine.

Now, tell me why they are different?

I was anticipating something reasoned. I hope you weren't as disappointed as I.

 

[CarmelHP]

Why didnt they surrender after the first bomb? Seems like lots of people on here say the japs wanted to surrender before the bombs were dropped? Really?? They attacked us at pearl harbor right? So if you ask me, we should have done everything and anything we can to destroy the threat and end the people that did this. war is war, we won, if you dont like how we won, should we have lost the war just so some people can be happy? thank god this country did what it needed to do. i feel no pity for a country that did what japan did at that time. ZERO. look what pitty is doing-AFGHANISTAN, IRAQ................GET IT???

http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-15-3-b-choices-truman-hirohito-and-the-atomic-bomb.html
By summer 1945, Japan was a nation on the edge of defeat. Its navy hardly existed. Its best airplane pilots had been killed. Its large armies lay scattered and isolated throughout Asia. The American naval blockade of Japan had stopped most shipping, which created major shortages of food and oil. Continuing American bombing raids had leveled most major Japanese cities, killing 200,000 persons.
Still, Japan fought on. From April to June 1944 during the U.S. invasion of Okinawa, an island 400 miles from the Japanese homeland, Japanese forces waged a fierce and desperate battle. Inspired by warrior traditions, the soldiers held on for weeks preferring to die in suicide charges or by their own hand than to surrender. The navy launched waves of suicide airplane attacks on the U.S. ships supporting the invasion. Even many Japanese civilians living on the island killed themselves to avoid capture by the Americans. In finally conquering the island, U.S. forces suffered 48,000 casualties.
In spite of the loss of Okinawa and overwhelming U.S. military superiority, the Japanese government was deadlocked about what to do. On the one hand, Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki took office in April 1945 with the goal of ending the hopeless war effort. Suzuki, his foreign minister, and others in the government attempted to get the Soviet Union to act as a go-between in negotiating conditions of surrender to end the war with the United States, Britain, and China. Suzuki was not aware that Stalin had already decided to declare war on Japan in a few months.
Other members of the Japanese government and military leadership strongly opposed surrendering. They argued that Japan should accept "the honorable death of a hundred million" rather than give up. They moved ahead with plans for defending the homeland including the use of 350,000 troops, preparing thousands of pilots and planes for kamikaze attacks and mobilization of hundreds of thousands of civilians, including women, as home defense fighters. They hoped that these measures could repel an American invasion and force the United States to end the war on terms more beneficial to Japan.
Considered a sacred figure in Japanese society, Emperor Hirohito normally remained above government politics. Throughout most of the war, Hirohito never openly opposed any decisions made by Japan's leaders. For instance, Hirohito was present when the decision was made to attack Pearl Harbor, but he remained silent. By early 1945, however, Hirohito had concluded that there should be "a swift termination of the war." When Okinawa fell to the Americans in June, he sent a personal representative to Moscow seeking terms of peace from the Allies.
By August, time had run out for the divided Japanese government and Emperor Hirohito. On August 6, the Enola Gay dropped the first atomic bomb on Hiroshima. The political and military leaders still could not agree what to do. Hirohito, now speaking more forcefully than ever before, declared, "We must bow to the inevitable."
On August 9, disaster struck from two directions. The Soviet Union declared war on Japan, and the United States dropped the second atomic bomb on Nagasaki. The government remained paralyzed. The leaders could agree on only one thing: The emperor's position in Japanese society must remain at all cost.
Finally, Prime Minister Suzuki took the unheard-of step of calling upon the emperor himself to break the deadlock between those favoring surrender and those who wanted to fight on. After listening to both sides, Hirohito said that "continuing the war can only mean destruction for the nation." He then declared that Japan must accept surrender.
On August 10, Suzuki sent a notice of surrender to the Allies with the condition that the emperor would remain as the "sovereign ruler" of Japan. The Allies accepted on one condition. The emperor must yield authority to the supreme commander of the forces occupying Japan until a new government was established "by the truly expressed will of the people." Some Japanese leaders wanted to reject this requirement. But Hirohito announced that he agreed to the Allied terms. All top civilian and military leaders then pledged to obey the emperor's wishes. The war was over.

 

[octalman]

I wonder if the citizens of Rome were taught that they were "the light"?

Who cares about the citizens of Rome. You want to play holier than thou looking back 60 years. You are not qualified to render judgement from the comfort of the couch. Any idiot can criticize the decisions of dead people. Try it in the hot seat where it requires you wear big boy pants.

 

[woodsie57]

Important thing, all speculation aside, is that it worked, and kept any other countries from trying the USA on for size for several decades-Go USA!

 

[lucky4034]

Who cares about the citizens of Rome. You want to play holier than thou looking back 60 years. You are not qualified to render judgement from the comfort of the couch. Any idiot can criticize the decisions of dead people. Try it in the hot seat where it requires you wear big boy pants.

I'm not criticizing anyone so slow your roll Hitler. I just find it funny that Americans think that everything we do is just... while the rest of the world thinks we are bullies.

Makes you wonder if we are blinded by our own glory... maybe a little bit brainwashed? Possibly victims of a relentless propaganda machine that has us all convinced we are special?

 

[indiucky]

I see.

No you don't. And unless the answer is "America Sucks" you never will.