Women in combat - Is it worth the effort?

[netsecurity]

I'm not saying it isn't going to work out having women in combat, but I'm really interested in finding out how they are going to deal with the numerous problems it causes. It seems like maybe a big publicity stunt by Obama, trying to show how he's winning "the war on women" (by letting them go to war ironically--perhaps the most ironic thing I can imagine actually).

First thought:
There was a shocking report recently about how many (non-combatant) females have being raped in the military. So it makes me wonder, now that they have approved women on the front lines, what will happen to those numbers?

Secondly:
I cannot help but think this will cause big distractions. How do you keep dozens of young men far from home, under the most stressful situations in their lives--who are peeing in a ditch--focused on their jobs, when there are women sleeping near them? It seems like a perfect storm for sex, pregnancy, fighting over the girl, depression from being dumped by the girl, jealousy, showing off, overprotective behavior focused on the female, and just too much drama overall.

Lastly:
An all female company would not have those problems, but how will an all female company fare against an all male enemy on the battlefield? And what happens when they're captured by the enemy? What happens in the news if their platoon are all slaughtered and pictures get out? What if their bodies are mutilated and hung from a bridge? What happens when we have hundreds of women coming home missing arms and legs?

Surely there are many more obstacles, including women's health. Is it worth all this effort to overcome these problems?

 

[msk]

Well I see no problem with it. If they can measure up physically then who am I to say anything about it. The rape issue....shouldn't be an issue. I don't think that would be giving our men and women in uniform enough credit there. I would say the overwhelming majority of them are good humans.

I would welcome any women to live, sleep, train next to me if she was able.

My .02.

 

[T4rdV4rk]

Well I see no problem with it. If they can measure up physically then who am I to say anything about it. The rape issue....shouldn't be an issue. I don't think that would be giving our men and women in uniform enough credit there. I would say the overwhelming majority of them are good humans.

I would welcome any women to live, sleep, train next to me if she was able.

My .02.

I'm sure you are a noble human being, but I think netsecurity is right about every concern that he has.

 

[thatgtrguy]

It's pretty well documented that men aren't very good at watching females getting killed on the battlefield. Men tend to focus on the wounded female rather than the mission.

 

[88GT]

Other nations have managed to make it work.

The inability of one human to control his/her impulses is a reflection on that human, not the circumstances that it occurred in.

 

[Mosinowner]

I honestly think women should be allowed in combat; If a man/woman cannot handle himself/herself in a stressful situations then he/she should not be in the military.

 

[mk2ja]

I think I'd prefer hear from the men who have been in the places politicians want to put women rather than from the politicians who want to put them there.

For all the studies, all the research, all the speculation, nobody has any authority to talk about what it will be like in those situations to have women there other than the men who have been in those situations.

Politicians, civilians, and POGs (like me), would be best served to let the grunts tell us what works for them and what doesn't.

 

[the1kidd03]

I think I'd prefer hear from the men who have been in the places politicians want to put women rather than from the politicians who want to put them there.

For all the studies, all the research, all the speculation, nobody has any authority to talk about what it will be like in those situations to have women there other than the men who have been in those situations.

Politicians, civilians, and POGs (like me), would be best served to let the grunts tell us what works for them and what doesn't.

Agreed

and no...

 

[the1kidd03]

I honestly think women should be allowed in combat; If a man/woman cannot handle himself/herself in a stressful situations then he/she should not be in the military.

The problem is that nobody knows they can deal with such a stressful situation, until they're in it/been in it....

I've known some female Marines who were respectively more "manly" than the majority of civilian males, but that doesn't undue all the other potential risks involved.

 

[Hoosier8]

I think I'd prefer hear from the men who have been in the places politicians want to put women rather than from the politicians who want to put them there.

For all the studies, all the research, all the speculation, nobody has any authority to talk about what it will be like in those situations to have women there other than the men who have been in those situations.

Politicians, civilians, and POGs (like me), would be best served to let the grunts tell us what works for them and what doesn't.

How about hearing from the capable women that are banned from things like sniper training because they are women?

 

[the1kidd03]

How about hearing from the capable women that are banned from things like sniper training because they are women?

Not ENTIRELY from sniper training. Depends on the role of the branch. Marines, yes. Army, I'm not sure about. Air Force, women can be snipers because they are utilized for defensive purposes whereas other branches are more offensive roles. I seem to remember a squid E6 I served with telling me they were allowed into DM training in the Navy as well but it's been a few years so I wouldn't swear to its validity. All areas where there's little to no threat of capture.

 

[Hoosier8]

Not ENTIRELY from sniper training. Depends on the role of the branch. Marines, yes. Army, I'm not sure about. Air Force, women can be snipers because they are utilized for defensive purposes whereas other branches are more offensive roles. I seem to remember a squid E6 I served with telling me they were allowed into DM training in the Navy as well but it's been a few years so I wouldn't swear to its validity. All areas where there's little to no threat of capture.

My daughter was a Marine so yes, banned.

 

[the1kidd03]

My daughter was a Marine so yes, banned.

Exactly. In the Marines. Not in other branches. Marines are a ground combat focused branch unlike some of the others.

 

[Mac-1917]

I don't think actual rape will be an issue. More of getting caught by a superior and female takes the quick way out. It has happened once during my career when both were caught doing the dirty on duty by the duty NCO. The female said rape causing an investigation and confinement for only the male until it was revealed that they had been dating for several weeks.

As for everyone comparing us to other countries that have had success with integration. We are a prude nation when compared to them as well. Until everyone can share same spaces without modesty issues it will kill morale.

The issue that causes me the most concern would be the affect on morale from the bull#$%^ policies that are going to trickle down regarding PC and the integration.

During my career when we worked with female service members I was on pins and needles and watched my guys like a hawk. Because no matter what happens the guy is going to be in the wrong. Numerous times after returning from a deployment or being deployed with females we were warned that if anything happened we were in the wrong.

All of these issues cause more stress in an already volatile environment. I can admit my own faults and state that maybe guys are not ready for it even though women are. However when you receive the order you will do it and do it well.

 

[msk]

I can definitely see your points regarding morale. On pen and paper it should seem like a no brainer. I would like to think that if my daughter decides to serve she can serve openly and in any qualified position. It should not matter her gender.

 

[hillbilly undertaker]

Having went through a co ed basic and a all male ait , i have seen the inherent issues first hand. You find that most can handle having the opposite sex in the trenches with them but there are a few who can't. Should the few spoil the rights of the many? No

 

[Cavman]

I think these current wars have spoiled us. I know that sounds crazy but they have. Everybody has forgotten what a conventional war will be like. With front lines, no fobs or big bases to go back to after the mission, no showers for weeks or months. MRE's and water only no chow halls or PX. I know a lot of men in Afghan in remote outpost still deal with this but for the most part many soldiers don't. Now to my point. I do believe that women have done a great job in our current war. But when we enter back into a conventional war they have no place being on the front lines. In Korea the longest i went without a shower in the field was over a month. The men during the invasion of Iraq and Afgahn probably went even longer. I know this would bring up hygiene issues for women. I guess i am just an old soldier and maybe I just do not want to deal with change. But I've also seen when women are attached to combat units the distractions it causes. My sister served in the army as well and she even commented on how women should not be allowed in combat roles. Believe it or not a mans instinct will always be to protect the woman and that will overcome the mission objective.

 

[88GT]

I think these current wars have spoiled us. I know that sounds crazy but they have. Everybody has forgotten what a conventional war will be like. With front lines, no fobs or big bases to go back to after the mission, no showers for weeks or months. MRE's and water only no chow halls or PX. I know a lot of men in Afghan in remote outpost still deal with this but for the most part many soldiers don't. Now to my point. I do believe that women have done a great job in our current war. But when we enter back into a conventional war they have no place being on the front lines. In Korea the longest i went without a shower in the field was over a month. The men during the invasion of Iraq and Afgahn probably went even longer. I know this would bring up hygiene issues for women. I guess i am just an old soldier and maybe I just do not want to deal with change. But I've also seen when women are attached to combat units the distractions it causes. My sister served in the army as well and she even commented on how women should not be allowed in combat roles. Believe it or not a mans instinct will always be to protect the woman and that will overcome the mission objective.

I disagree. An American man's instinct will be to protect the women. Men of other cultures wherein the women have a more equal status--and have had it for a while--in sharing the risk may or may not. But at that point it becomes an issue of personal nature, not universal instinct.

To that I will add that you cannot tell me that there aren't personal difference within units in which one male soldier wouldn't treat another male soldier differently. Your best friend takes a round to the leg and drops before getting to cover and you're going to be sorely tempted to be stupid and try and go get him. Some one you can take or leave and have no more bond with other than the fact that he's serving in the same unit will probably illicit no more than a "Damn, glad that wasn't me" and possibly a "I hope we can get to him safely and get him out of there before he bleeds out or the bastards get him."

My take on the whole thing is that if women are not to be allowed in combat, then they ought not to be in the military at all.

The entire premise of the argument that women will disrupt status quo is essentially arguing that we know men have issues and we're not going to do anything about them. It's the modern military version of boys will be boys. I've never felt that was all that cerebral of an argument to justify stupid. I still don't. Particularly among grown men.

If you're going to disallow women in combat and/or military, you need also to disallow homosexuals.

 

[Jmoreland287]

If you want to fight for this country and physically able to do so, go through the same training as everyone else you should be allowed to. It's like saying women shouldn't be allowed to be police officers, I personally have worked with and had my ass saved by female officers who are every bit as competent and aware in the field as men. Of course some things will never change: The chance of fraternization, possibility of complications due to different needs than men.. ect. ect. BUT I feel that if people would just behave like adults in a mature and professional manner everything pans out fine.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

It seems to work rather well in Israel...

Granted, that's a slightly different situation.

-J-