I remember reading the test reports back then using the .45 ACP/185 as a comparison standard, and wondering why not use the .45ACP/185 if that was the goal?
I know a lot of people at the time thought the 10mm was initially chosen because within the FBI's Firearms Training Unit there were two sides: 9mm/15+ rounds, and .45/7+ rounds, and the 10mm was a compromise they all could live with for a while.
The 10mm recoil story never made a lot of sense to me. For one thing, the FBI guns prior to the mid 80s were .357 Magnum K-frames. If that wasn't too much, the 10mm couldn't be. I'd rather shoot a 10mm any day.
However....
I've read that the FBI had a big hiring of females around this time. The S&W 1076 grip might be a handful to the average female hand. If they had to go to a 9mm-sized frame for this reason, it made sense to get the most from that frame size. This probably helped lead to the .40, otherwise, they could have continued using the "10mm Lite" loading.
Yes, I realize the story always includes the fact that downloading the 10mm to 180@950 was a bit inefficient and the .40 was created to match those downloaded 10mm ballistics, but I think that was S&W seeing an opening. I doubt the FBI called up S&W and Winchester and asked them to create a gun/cartridge combo to save brass. To get a more compact grip frame- yeah, that I can see.
What I don't remember seeing on paper anywhere back then was:
When the FBI adopted the S&W 1076 10mm, what ammunition did the FBI start with?
I'm talking about before they had their 180@950 load created. That loading didn't come for a while. Even this linked paper about the tests doesn't specify what the tested, saying "factory-loaded 10mm ammunition was acquired" for the tests. Which ammunition?
Everybody automatically thinks of the "hot" Norma load (200 at 1200 fps, and 170 at 1300) but I don't think the FBI ever issued that. Really, I don't think the Norma load was still being made by this time. The Norma 10mm ammo came out in 1983, but I don't remember it being around that long before they stopped making it due to high/erratic pressures. I think it was off the market within maybe two years, but it could have been longer. I am pretty sure it didn't last the six years until the FBI adopted the 10mm.
I have heard the ammo used in those tests for the Wound Ballistic Workshop was the Norma 170 JHP (Power Cavity per Norma), but that it was only around 40-50 rounds total. I doubt they issued it when the 1076 was adopted. For one thing, US ammo companies would have raised a fuss we would have heard in the gun world. For another, Norma 10mm was expensive stuff.
I hadn't heard that before. What has been changed? The one I bought three years ago seems just like the one I had in 1989, right down to the springs.
I know a lot of people at the time thought the 10mm was initially chosen because within the FBI's Firearms Training Unit there were two sides: 9mm/15+ rounds, and .45/7+ rounds, and the 10mm was a compromise they all could live with for a while.
The 10mm recoil story never made a lot of sense to me. For one thing, the FBI guns prior to the mid 80s were .357 Magnum K-frames. If that wasn't too much, the 10mm couldn't be. I'd rather shoot a 10mm any day.
However....
I've read that the FBI had a big hiring of females around this time. The S&W 1076 grip might be a handful to the average female hand. If they had to go to a 9mm-sized frame for this reason, it made sense to get the most from that frame size. This probably helped lead to the .40, otherwise, they could have continued using the "10mm Lite" loading.
Yes, I realize the story always includes the fact that downloading the 10mm to 180@950 was a bit inefficient and the .40 was created to match those downloaded 10mm ballistics, but I think that was S&W seeing an opening. I doubt the FBI called up S&W and Winchester and asked them to create a gun/cartridge combo to save brass. To get a more compact grip frame- yeah, that I can see.
What I don't remember seeing on paper anywhere back then was:
When the FBI adopted the S&W 1076 10mm, what ammunition did the FBI start with?
I'm talking about before they had their 180@950 load created. That loading didn't come for a while. Even this linked paper about the tests doesn't specify what the tested, saying "factory-loaded 10mm ammunition was acquired" for the tests. Which ammunition?
Everybody automatically thinks of the "hot" Norma load (200 at 1200 fps, and 170 at 1300) but I don't think the FBI ever issued that. Really, I don't think the Norma load was still being made by this time. The Norma 10mm ammo came out in 1983, but I don't remember it being around that long before they stopped making it due to high/erratic pressures. I think it was off the market within maybe two years, but it could have been longer. I am pretty sure it didn't last the six years until the FBI adopted the 10mm.
I have heard the ammo used in those tests for the Wound Ballistic Workshop was the Norma 170 JHP (Power Cavity per Norma), but that it was only around 40-50 rounds total. I doubt they issued it when the 1076 was adopted. For one thing, US ammo companies would have raised a fuss we would have heard in the gun world. For another, Norma 10mm was expensive stuff.
Colt has redone the Delta Elite over several times throughout the year trying to handle this stout round, I wonder how those guns handle now.
I hadn't heard that before. What has been changed? The one I bought three years ago seems just like the one I had in 1989, right down to the springs.