Who's right? Anyone?

[BehindBlueI's]

Video: Man arguing with ex-'s boyfriend accidentally shoots own wife

I'm glad I'm not the detective on this mess. I'd bet it would go to grand jury if it happened here, not sure how OH decides if charges are filed in situations like this.

The fail truck made a delivery to that address, that's for sure.

[video=youtube;SaPLMxhPLhw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaPLMxhPLhw#t=57[/video]

 

[jrogers]

Charge both the boyfriend and the ex-husband.

And the wife for getting involved with a couple of idiots. The only innocent here is the dog.

 

[Glock19]

If the guy that pulled the gun had been drinking then he was negligent.

 

[Fixer]

How does the saying go. Don't argue with an idiot, people won't be able to tell you apart.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

Charge both the boyfriend and the ex-husband.

And the wife for getting involved with a couple of idiots. The only innocent here is the dog.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
yup, put the 3 of em in jail, give custody of the kid to the dog!

 

[TopDog]

Charge both the boyfriend and the ex-husband.

And the wife for getting involved with a couple of idiots. The only innocent here is the dog.

Agreed, the only innocent here is the dog. He was the only one smart enough to stay out of it.

 

[ViperJock]

So are you only allowed to defend yourself if you are sober? That guy may have had drinks but how do you know he was "drunk?" Glad I don't drink. Just one more reason. IMO the guy that was packing is guilty of assault for kicking the phone out of the ladies hands and maybe poor judgement. There have been several threads where INGOers have defended clearing leather for being assaulted with fists. Why is this different?

 

[Birds Away]

What I saw on the video was a man getting punched in the face and then drawing his weapon. I have to question whether being punched would/should cause you to fear for your life. All physical aggression is not the same. If the gun weren't involved it would seem that this would have been just a couple of idiots duking it out. The introduction of the handgun took it to another level. This should give us all cause for a little introspection.

 

[David D]

This thread title is spot on. There is plenty of blame for both men. It appears as though the original puncher threw one punch and then was anxious to get away (even before the gun was brought out). I have no desire to get hit in the face, but one hit without reason to believe more will follow is not justification to draw a gun. The gun carrier should be charged with some type of negligence leading to personal injury, and have his right to carry suspended until both some time has passed, and he has undergone proper training.

The puncher should be charged with assault for punching, and should be declared an idiot for his negligent discharge.

 

[metaldog]

I find it interesting that the wife says, "You've got a gun?!" in the video. As though she was totally surprised by this. Regardless... What stupidity!

 

[cedartop]

I find it interesting that the wife says, "You've got a gun?!" in the video. As though she was totally surprised by this. Regardless... What stupidity!

Right, and instead of trying to stop him, just kept filming.

 

[kiddchaos]

 

[Glock19]

So are you only allowed to defend yourself if you are sober? That guy may have had drinks but how do you know he was "drunk?" Glad I don't drink. Just one more reason. IMO the guy that was packing is guilty of assault for kicking the phone out of the ladies hands and maybe poor judgement. There have been several threads where INGOers have defended clearing leather for being assaulted with fists. Why is this different?

Who said that? I said if he was drinking he should be charged with negligence. If your judgement is impaired in the least bit you should not be carrying PERIOD. Whoopdie do, he got punched in the mouth. He drew that gun to scare the guy not defend himself get real. He used the gun as a fear factor, nothing more. What happens if it was the kid who got shot instead? He drew the gun, then kicked the wife...really? If he was in fear for his life he had plenty of time to back up after the other guy retreated.

 

[SteveM4A1]

You can't fix stupid.

 

[Lectric102002]

It's kind of hard to tell, but if you look closely between 0:15 and 0:17 on the video, the first punch hits gun guy in the shoulder and the second appears to hit him in the side / back of the head as he was turning. Punching guy was retreating as soon as he threw the second punch.

If I'm on the jury, no way am I saying gun guy appeared to be in fear for his life. He escalated the situation by drawing and initiating a pursuit.

 

[littletommy]

Charge both the boyfriend and the ex-husband.

And the wife for getting involved with a couple of idiots. The only innocent here is the dog.

Holy crap! I'm in total agreement with jrogers!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It would be easier if the reporter was a boxing announcer. It'd be easier if he'd say "in the red shorts" and "in the blue shorts", plus say who's corner the spouse/ex-spouse is in.

Anyway:

"Schussler was charged with assault against Shelley Molchak and with having a weapon while intoxicated. Tony Molchak was charged with negligent assault on his wife, according to the station."

VIDEO: Tony Molchak, Ohio man, accidentally shoots wife while confronting ex-wife's boyfriend, report says - Crimesider - CBS News


Oops, posted too soon.

I was going to say its tough for me to buy you are in fear for your life when after you draw and the aggressor retreats you talk smack and go after him, taking the time to assault a sorta bystander along the way.

 

[ViperJock]

Who said that? I said if he was drinking he should be charged with negligence. If your judgement is impaired in the least bit you should not be carrying PERIOD. Whoopdie do, he got punched in the mouth. He drew that gun to scare the guy not defend himself get real. He used the gun as a fear factor, nothing more. What happens if it was the kid who got shot instead? He drew the gun, then kicked the wife...really? If he was in fear for his life he had plenty of time to back up after the other guy retreated.

A while back INGO was arguing for carry in Bars. Support for Tennessee maybe? (I don't drink because I don't see the point in being drunk so that's my background) I wonder how many INGOers put their gun in the safe before they go out? Glass of wine at dinner? I smell hypocrisy.

The guy was retreating where? just because he is off camera doesn't mean he is no longer a threat. Easily could have been a tactical retreat or a move to pick up a shovel or a baseball bat.

Also the guy who drew never fired on anyone, how can you argue that he was doing anything other than ensuring his own safety? Talking smack is often a defense mechanism. You guys have no proof of anything you are saying. You see a small portion of the thing on video and all of a sudden you know all the facts?

Escalated? Doesn't the guy who wins the fight escalate it by definition? Are you saying you would never draw unless someone draws on you first? Would you wait for someone to fire on you before you fire?

You could be right in your assessment. The guy may have initiated the argument with the intent to draw down. But you don't know that. If one of you had been the guy who got punched I bet we would be reading a very different thread right now. Armchair quarterbacking. Hypocrisy. Jump on in to the moral high ground train to nowhere.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Some of my most infuriating moments in life revolved around visitation of my wife's kids and their dad.

 

[Glock19]

A while back INGO was arguing for carry in Bars. Support for Tennessee maybe? (I don't drink because I don't see the point in being drunk so that's my background) I wonder how many INGOers put their gun in the safe before they go out? Glass of wine at dinner? I smell hypocrisy.

The guy was retreating where? just because he is off camera doesn't mean he is no longer a threat. Easily could have been a tactical retreat or a move to pick up a shovel or a baseball bat.

Also the guy who drew never fired on anyone, how can you argue that he was doing anything other than ensuring his own safety? Talking smack is often a defense mechanism. You guys have no proof of anything you are saying. You see a small portion of the thing on video and all of a sudden you know all the facts?

Escalated? Doesn't the guy who wins the fight escalate it by definition? Are you saying you would never draw unless someone draws on you first? Would you wait for someone to fire on you before you fire?

You could be right in your assessment. The guy may have initiated the argument with the intent to draw down. But you don't know that. If one of you had been the guy who got punched I bet we would be reading a very different thread right now. Armchair quarterbacking. Hypocrisy. Jump on in to the moral high ground train to nowhere.

If you feel the need to argue and get face to face with a guy then draw when he hits you, you are an idiot. You have the responsibility as a gun owner/carrier to avoid stuff like that, to back down, to lessen the threat, not escalate it. A fistfight that you helped provoke should not be any reason to draw a gun. You get in someone elses face and then draw when they step up....he wasnt in fear for his life the whole time until he got punched. The other guy retreated then he should have backed into his house and called the cops if he was in fear. If he drew and shot someone in that scenario he should have been charged with manslaughter. He had every opportunity from what I saw to de-escalate it and chose to raise the threat level by persuing and attacking the wife. The wife posed no threat by standing still and videoing. He attacked her while having a gun in his hand, thats assault with a weapon. Yes I know all the FACTS that I saw and mentioned. "Easily could have been a tactical retreat or a move to pick up a shovel or a baseball bat. " did you see any of that? I saw the guy run behind a car to hide....who is the person guessing and not pointing out facts now?