whats your .45 carry ammo?

[Wabatuckian]

Someone told me that Winchester, after getting all the bad press for making the evil, scary Black Talon just changed the name to SXT or...

Same eXact Thing

Don't know if that's true, just thought it was funny.

Nope, they're not the same.

SXTs are better.

Josh <><

 

[10ring]

Winchester Black Talon Revisited --> .38 Special Snubby Ammo, Black Talon Revisited, Ed Sanow and Guns & Ammo Intentionally Misrepresent Facts

That was the original SXT.

That doesn't refer to the Supreme SXT which is actually a completely different thing (perhaps it should be called Supreme CDT) than the black talon and it's ancestor, Ranger T (which is also different from the black talon).

 

[Disposable Heart]

Aren't Black Talons older tech bullets by now? With the amount of research going on by other companies and small changes that they do to their ammo lines, I would imagine that Black Talons are successful rounds, but old stuff compared to the super uber mega ninja death rounds of today. I like the Rangers, but dios mio, they are getting hard to find from a company that ships reasonably. Ammo to go is backed WAY up.

Now the thing I have to ask is are the boxes of regular personal defense 230gr Hydrashocks the same as the LEO boxes ( the LEO boxed non-bonded and non HST ones)?

 

[bwframe]

Around Indy carry (summer, spring, early fall): Remington 230gr JHP or handloaded Golden Sabres.
Winter around town: 230gr Ball (factory loaded, whatever I have on hand).
Traveling: 255gr LRN with 5.5 gr. Unique behind it or 185gr RN with a good dose of Titegroup.

With my handloads (rarely carried), I ensure all the casings are the same headstamp, all my usual match preparations made.

What is Titegroup, a powder? Why the 255gr?

 

[Crystalship1]

Aren't Black Talons older tech bullets by now? With the amount of research going on by other companies and small changes that they do to their ammo lines, I would imagine that Black Talons are successful rounds, but old stuff compared to the super uber mega ninja death rounds of today.

IMHO.... you sir, are absolutely correct. All the continued interest in the Black Talon by firearm folks just proves it's not the media and the general public that bought into all the hype!!!

 

[xd45in]

Wincester Black Talons in mine

why are you carrying 15 year old ammo in your carry weapon?

the new stuff is much better (more reliable)with all the improvements in ammo(Gold Dots,Ranger SXT ,Corbon and HST)
BTW I"m in Vincennes also

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Around Indy carry (summer, spring, early fall): Remington 230gr JHP or handloaded Golden Sabres.
Winter around town: 230gr Ball (factory loaded, whatever I have on hand).
Traveling: 255gr LRN with 5.5 gr. Unique behind it or 185gr RN with a good dose of Titegroup.

With my handloads (rarely carried), I ensure all the casings are the same headstamp, all my usual match preparations made.

Just out of curiosity, why do you carry different loads/projectiles based on season or location?

 

[Disposable Heart]

Sort of a penetration situation. I think a car door would be more affected by a heavier projectile, but specifically: penetration against a two legged varmit. I can assure penetration deep enough against light cover with the 255 grainer. Brassfetcher (online) has a great site, but given the penetration of 230grain ball, which if I remember is still good, I can be assured that even behind a car door, the target will still be penetrated deep enough with the hardcast 255 grainer. I seriously have bad dreams which a bullet goes in, but doesnt penetrate deep enough to hit the back bone, vitals, etc...

In regards to season, heavy clothing can clog even the best hollow points. A light T-shirt doesnt so much, so hollows (sorry to use a ghetto slang!) would perform best. Its sort of a cynicism on my part: No reason to carry hollows in cold as they will fail no matter what. But, I DO KNOW (believe me!) that some HP work great against cloth! But its a sense of security in my mind, how do I keep my mind at rest?

Realistically, I would carry ball (only in .45) at all times, but if even a 1% chance of a HP expanding, I would revel in that I can do just that little bit more to defend myself or others by carry HP. The better the HP, the better percentage of course.

Thus is the quandry!!! Only carry ball in all weather as hollows can be tempermental (especially given creatures like XTPs which clog very easily and require high velo to even begin expaning). New rounds can expand very well, clothing and penetration not an issue, but some do not feed well in 1911s, are very expensive or work poorly against light cover/auto glass. Some old designs/concepts work, but others dont and need revision. Thus is my 255grainer load. Great ability against heavier clothing, great penetration, reliability and better performance than 230grainers, particularly with the flatter metplat the 255 offers over the 230 against auto glass. But, over penetration becomes an issue.

I think I seriously cornered myself! HELP!! One thing I know is that ballistics aside, one thing remains true (and many trainers and others will agree) shot placement, stress training and practice will prevail. I dont keep myslef in the glamourous idea of two shot drops and such. I trust point aimed fire at close ranges until the target/bad dude drops. Then, and especially then, guard is kept up (but with one's senses kept open to the environment as best they can, given auditory exclusion and adrenline). .45 is a glorious cartridge to own, merits include that even an unexpanded round is close to expanded other rounds, decent penetration with good modern designed rounds (185 gr. Silver tips dont cut it!) and accuracy as all get out. As far as best HP for any job, there is none. Over penetration with heavier rounds is an issue, but under penetration with lighter ones (even Gold Dots, Silver tips, hydrashocks, and on that note, who ever designed 165gr HP for .45 needs to be hung!). Personal preference needs to take a back seat to functionality and research of existing cases and testing. I am not one to revel in the FBI tests, but I do expect a better penetration level than what was given by the FBI, expansion is important, but not so much if effective aimed/pointed fire incapacitate the backbone or medulla can shut down an attacker just as well.

Too much! Need to stop drinkin!

 

[calcot7]

Speer - Gold Dot 230 Gr.

 

[45calibre]

Sort of a penetration situation. I think a car door would be more affected by a heavier projectile, but specifically: penetration against a two legged varmit. I can assure penetration deep enough against light cover with the 255 grainer. Brassfetcher (online) has a great site, but given the penetration of 230grain ball, which if I remember is still good, I can be assured that even behind a car door, the target will still be penetrated deep enough with the hardcast 255 grainer. I seriously have bad dreams which a bullet goes in, but doesnt penetrate deep enough to hit the back bone, vitals, etc...

In regards to season, heavy clothing can clog even the best hollow points. A light T-shirt doesnt so much, so hollows (sorry to use a ghetto slang!) would perform best. Its sort of a cynicism on my part: No reason to carry hollows in cold as they will fail no matter what. But, I DO KNOW (believe me!) that some HP work great against cloth! But its a sense of security in my mind, how do I keep my mind at rest?

Realistically, I would carry ball (only in .45) at all times, but if even a 1% chance of a HP expanding, I would revel in that I can do just that little bit more to defend myself or others by carry HP. The better the HP, the better percentage of course.

Thus is the quandry!!! Only carry ball in all weather as hollows can be tempermental (especially given creatures like XTPs which clog very easily and require high velo to even begin expaning). New rounds can expand very well, clothing and penetration not an issue, but some do not feed well in 1911s, are very expensive or work poorly against light cover/auto glass. Some old designs/concepts work, but others dont and need revision. Thus is my 255grainer load. Great ability against heavier clothing, great penetration, reliability and better performance than 230grainers, particularly with the flatter metplat the 255 offers over the 230 against auto glass. But, over penetration becomes an issue.

I think I seriously cornered myself! HELP!! One thing I know is that ballistics aside, one thing remains true (and many trainers and others will agree) shot placement, stress training and practice will prevail. I dont keep myslef in the glamourous idea of two shot drops and such. I trust point aimed fire at close ranges until the target/bad dude drops. Then, and especially then, guard is kept up (but with one's senses kept open to the environment as best they can, given auditory exclusion and adrenline). .45 is a glorious cartridge to own, merits include that even an unexpanded round is close to expanded other rounds, decent penetration with good modern designed rounds (185 gr. Silver tips dont cut it!) and accuracy as all get out. As far as best HP for any job, there is none. Over penetration with heavier rounds is an issue, but under penetration with lighter ones (even Gold Dots, Silver tips, hydrashocks, and on that note, who ever designed 165gr HP for .45 needs to be hung!). Personal preference needs to take a back seat to functionality and research of existing cases and testing. I am not one to revel in the FBI tests, but I do expect a better penetration level than what was given by the FBI, expansion is important, but not so much if effective aimed/pointed fire incapacitate the backbone or medulla can shut down an attacker just as well.

Too much! Need to stop drinkin!

the new federal hst does really good with opening up even while penetrating clothing

 

[Glocker1986]

Federal 230 grain +P HST

 

[BloodEclipse]

Remington Golden Saber 230gr, but considering the 185gr.
I plan on buying some to see how my XD45C likes it.

 

[45calibre]

How are the golden sabors compared to the sxt?

 

[Marc]

winchester target/range 230gr

 

[sloughfoot]

230 ball at 850 FPS. War winner since 1917. Who really cares about overpenetration or expansion? Shoot em, put em down. If they don't go down, shoot em again. If they fly through the perp, so what???? He/she needed to shot, right?

Iknow, not PC

JMO.

 

[Dogman]

230 ball at 850 FPS. War winner since 1917. Who really cares about overpenetration or expansion? Shoot em, put em down. If they don't go down, shoot em again. If they fly through the perp, so what???? He/she needed to shot, right?

Iknow, not PC

JMO.

They all fall to hardball! Having said that you might look at the Federal EFMJ.

 

[Slow Hand]

I really like teh Winchester White Box 230gr JHP's. They have fed in every .45 I've tried them in, including some older 1911's. Accurate and reliable and when I sho tthem into some wet phonebooks, the expanded bullets looked like the should have been in a magazine ad! It's been awhile since I bought any, but they were running around $22/box of 50 rounds! A lot better than well over a buck a shot for many defensive rounds.

Doug K

 

[Marc]

I really like teh Winchester White Box 230gr JHP's. They have fed in every .45 I've tried them in, including some older 1911's. Accurate and reliable and when I sho tthem into some wet phonebooks, the expanded bullets looked like the should have been in a magazine ad! It's been awhile since I bought any, but they were running around $22/box of 50 rounds! A lot better than well over a buck a shot for many defensive rounds.

Doug K

i get mine from walmart and you can get the value pack for 29 dollars for 100 rounds. i get the same ammo as you

 

[swmp9jrm]

Federal 230gr Tactical HST.

 

[45calibre]

I have been trying to test some hornady jhps in a bucket of water with a. Tree stump. Back stop but thex won't expand. I really want to see how they expand, how many phone books would I need using the same method?