What would you have done?

[edg]

Ok, so Thursday I am in Upland, IN and go to the doctors office across from Taylor U. When I pull into the parking lot there are three unmarked, one state and a sheriffs SUV in the parking lot. I walk in and the there is a sign saying the pharmacy is closed (this is located in the same bldg. across from the check-in desk for docs office) I go to the check in and inquire as to what occured. They say that the pharmacy had just been robbed. Apparently a man walked in, brandished a gun, asked for drugs and with no commotion walked out. No one was hurt. As they are telling me this I am getting a little steamed. I know a little bit about everyone in the pharmacy and doctors office. I realize that something could have happened to these folks and I was within an hour of possibly being in the middle of this robbery.
I don't think that anybody knows what they would do unless they were there, but after much consternation for the rest of the day, I landed on the fact that I would have probably stuck my nose in...what would you have done?

 

[repair]

Pulled my Glock and the robber would have had to make a decision..... will the state reinburse me for my ammo?

My Doctors nurse was a little worried the first time she saw I was wearing a gun but my Doctor told her not to be concerned and that he felt safe with me having a gun.

He has been my Doctor for almost 20years! +1 for my Doc.

 

[Glock Lover]

I would have grabbed some good sleeping pills while everyone was looking at him.

 

[esrice]

The details are too vague at this point to make any kind of judgement.

If you, at any point, felt that your life, or the life of those involved, was in danger of death or grave bodily harm, then using deadly force to resolve the situation would've been warranted.

But the Devil's in the details.

 

[clt46910]

If he was calm and not threatening, I would have let him walk out. I would have looked to see where and how he left and get a make, model, etc of car if any there.

 

[Smitty506th]

While I understand and respect this forum as just that, a forum (a place to discuss things), I can’t help but be put off by the “what if” questions people pose. I know you stated that we all react differently to every situation and that You would have stuck your nose into the situation yet I wonder if you would be willing to take responsibility for someone who was injured, by the robber, after you intervened. Obviously I am not trying to say that if you saw someone’s life, or your own, being threatened in immediate danger that you not take action but you mentioned that you knew these people. The fact that you know the people involved makes this an even deeper question. So I think we should all consider the scenario with our (unarmed) friends in the role of the pharmacy employees. Armed theft is just theft but I know I hate to see people I know having guns pointed at them….. I think I would have stuck my Glock into the situation. (I might have said that I was “put off” by questions such as this but I never said I would refrain from participating..) Situations such as this are precisely the reason we should practice drawing and firing from our holsters. Proper training and range time equal real world reliability.

 

[esrice]

I can’t help but be put off by the “what if” questions people pose.

Just curious why? Asking "What If?" is great mental conditioning. It gives one the opportunity to mentally put himself in bad situations and then work through the decision making process, thereby making those decisions easier to make when a real situation does occur.

Athletes call this "visualization".

Personally, I don't see ANY harm that could come from "what ifs".

 

[Field King]

Just curious why? Asking "What If?" is great mental conditioning. It gives one the opportunity to mentally put himself in bad situations and then work through the decision making process, thereby making those decisions easier to make when a real situation does occur.

Athletes call this "visualization".

Personally, I don't see ANY harm that could come from "what ifs".

I agree, visualization is great mental exercise! I believe thoughts are things, a thought or visualization later manifested in physical reality may be the edge one needs to calmly react when all hell is breaking loose around you! Sort of practice!

 

[esrice]

Look at it as clearing out your mental pathways, so that when the time comes to REALLY make the decision, your brain is already familiar with that path.

 

[edg]

As esrice stated before "the devil is in the details". I know where I sit in the pharmacy, my view of the check out area etc. All I did was put myself in the "what if" scenario after being told of the robbery and the steps I would have taken, because quite frankly that is the first time I have ever come in after a robbery and been able to do so.

 

[Bill of Rights]

If the guy looked like a credible threat, then probably take cover, draw, and drop him where he stands-no warnings. If not, take cover and be a good witness.
Questions to think about:
Can you use your cell phone camera to take a picture without taking away from your ability to draw and fire if needed?
Can you see this going on before the perp sees you (like from outside)?
--Maybe look to see if there's a nearby "getaway car" waiting.
--If so and you can do it without excessive risk, jot the license down and see who gets in and which way it leaves.
--Get a good physical description?

In any event, I'd sure as hell be on my phone to 911, afterward for certain, during if possible.

Good question.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Smitty506th]

"What if" is the whole reason we are all still here. If we did not have the ability to create scenarios in our minds and work through them then we wouldn't have a clue as to what to do if that situation (or one similar) popped up. If nothing else asking “what if” helps us broaden our own opinions and present variables we didn’t think of. I am just saying that we all have our own “moral” rules of engagement pertaining to situations involving our friends. Talk is just that when it comes to questions like this. It all ends when the shooting starts. My statement about being “put off” was pertaining to reading a lot of talk in forums and never hearing of people training for real world situations at ranges. If more ranges allowed you to draw and fire either from concealed or from your belt that range time would mean more. From my training and combat experiences I have to say that muscle memory is step one and then close quarter scenarios. I just feel like when people ask “what if” (pertaining to {would you engage or not} in this setting) it’s more like standing around an engine talking about working on it instead of working on it. Sort of like an armchair sniper never misses. Asking “what if” is always a good thing to do, we just need to incorporate physical fitness and training into the answers.

In any case I’m glad no one was hurt. When someone is stealing drugs you never know what they are already on.

 

[cosermann]

I'd rather think through hypothetical scenarios ahead of time than do it for the first time under the gun. Good exercise. Should be part of everyone's training.

If someone is displaying a firearm threateningly and is in the process of committing a felony, that person is fair game legally speaking (i.e. one would be justified using lethal/deadly force). The means, opportunity, intent, etc. are all there. Whether it makes good sense to engage that person, tactically speaking, is another matter. That's the tough part. Just because it's justifiable doesn't mean it's wise (depending on the circumstances).

 

[SWAT-DOC]

I know I too hate these perps that do this stuff...chances are if you tail him instead of confronting him and be a good witness like staying on the phone with dispatch you can lead the law to him. You never know if he has back up too. Don't get tunnel vision...look around at all the others in the immediate area. He may not be the only one. If you engage... he may be surprised but you may be surprised more. Maybe the guy setting behind you is his back up. Fight fire with fire but be alert and be smart. You take a big chance with liability for everyone around not just you and him. If he theatens you or any third person...game on.

 

[JByer323]

From what little details you gave me? Probably nothing. If he really just ended up walking out, I'd continue to shop for condoms or whatever it was I was there for.

 

[NateIU10]

Draw down on him, put 2 shots COM and one in his melon, all while strafing.

Oh wait, this isn't ARFCOM, never mind...

 

[bailey5460]

I know that this piece of crap has definitely comitted a felony and I am justified n using force up to and including deadly. I now have to think of the people in the building and the chance of them getting hurt. If and when there would be a clear shot with %100 chance of certainty that I'm not going to shoot anybody in the process. I would blow his brains out the back of his head.

 

[koenig clone]

thats sad. upland is a nice, small, hometown community. i have alot of friends that way. guys lucky none of them were there. some good ole rednecks.

 

[volsfandan]

look around, be sure of a good backstop,and put 3or 4 .45 rounds center mass. or sit down and the pharmacist will be with you in a few minutes.

 

[Joe Williams]

I'm not shooting a person for somebody else's money. If I thought lives were in danger I'd react to end that threat. Otherwise, if somebody wants my expert security services (not kidding about that part) they can pay me for them.