What makes this a pistol?

[EvilKidsMeal]

so that leads me to another question. would a stockless AK be considered a pistol (or any stockless rifle really) or would it be a SBR because it would have had to be modified from rifle form??

 

[Lobo]

I've kinda wanted one of these for a while. It's a Rock River 9mm pistol. I've handled one in a gun shop, and the buffer tube worked fairly well for a shoulder stock, at least in handling it. I didn't get to shoot it, but I don't imagine the 9mm out of this platform would cause significant recoil that would dig into your shoulder. I imagine one of these would be a neat home defense weapon with a good light and a red dot or laser sight. Just don't add a forward grip or anything to the buffer tube, and I imagine it would make a handy little SBR without the NFA BS.

Anyone ever shot one of these from the shoulder? I know it would be tucked in close, but it would work in a pinch, I think.

 

[woundedyak]

They offer them like that so they can get them into Ca. I had to build a Draco like that so my buddy in Ca could get it in. Under Ca law, It's not a rifle, It's a hand gun

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

They offer them like that so they can get them into Ca. I had to build a Draco like that so my buddy in Ca could get it in.

so pistol or SBR?

 

[MarkM]

That brings me to my question. Im not 21 but i could buy one of those from a private seller. Lets say i do, And i get a forward grip put on the front does that make it an AOW and would that land me in a heep of trouble?

Does no one know the answer to this?

 

[MarkM]

so pistol or SBR?

Pistol.

 

[Seancass]

Your problem is saying because it sorta looks like a rifle action, then it must be a rifle.

It is a Pistol because the manufacturer says it's a pistol. That's Why! It may look like a rifle action to you, but it's not. It is being sold as a pistol.

You can put a stock on a single action revolver or a Glock, but that won't make it a rifle. It's a pistol(unless you put a stock on it, then it's an illegal SBR).

They make bolt action pistols and break open pistols. They didn't just cut the stock off a rifle(that'd be an SBR). They manufactured a pistol, which you happen to think looks like a rifle.

Quit judging a gun by the way it looks!

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

Pistol.

AHHHHHHH GUN LAWS!!!!!

 

[woundedyak]

An SBR in Ca would send you straight to hell along with a felony weapon charge unless you have a active military ID. Other wise, you take the stock off,shorten the barrel and add a "bullet button" Which makes the firearm not as deadly or sinful.

 

[Seancass]

so that leads me to another question. would a stockless AK be considered a pistol (or any stockless rifle really) or would it be a SBR because it would have had to be modified from rifle form??

A PISTOL AK is a pistol. It was never an AK. And it was never a rifle. If it was ever a rifle and you took the stock off and it then had an overall length less than 26 inches, it is now an illegal SBR. If you take the stock off and due to a long barrel it is still over 26 inches, you just have a funny looking rifle without a stock. but it's still a rifle, even without the stock.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

Your problem is saying because it sorta looks like a rifle action, then it must be a rifle.

It is a Pistol because the manufacturer says it's a pistol. That's Why! It may look like a rifle action to you, but it's not. It is being sold as a pistol.

You can put a stock on a single action revolver or a Glock, but that won't make it a rifle. It's a pistol(unless you put a stock on it, then it's an illegal SBR).

They make bolt action pistols and break open pistols. They didn't just cut the stock off a rifle(that'd be an SBR). They manufactured a pistol, which you happen to think looks like a rifle.

Quit judging a gun by the way it looks!

thats not what im saying. it's just crazy to me that the only reason is because there is no stock. cause the manufacturer says its a pistol but if you put on a stock its a rifle. it will still be known to the manufacturer as a pistol. you just modified it at home. but say it isnt manufactured with a stock but is longer than 26 inches. could they say its a pistol? cause law says anything under 26. im not saying because it looks like a rifle i guess alot of it had to do with the lengths.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

A PISTOL AK is a pistol. It was never an AK. And it was never a rifle. If it was ever a rifle and you took the stock off and it then had an overall length less than 26 inches, it is now an illegal SBR. If you take the stock off and due to a long barrel it is still over 26 inches, you just have a funny looking rifle without a stock. but it's still a rifle, even without the stock.

okay but if under 26 is a pistol and over is a rifle then where does that leave an SBR? is it just because if you shorten the barrel of a rifle and it still has the stock its an SBR? im confused because if it has no stock and its under 26 its a pistol. so if it formerly had a stock, putting it over 26 and you remove said stock, putting it under 26 then it becomes an SBR because it was formerly a true rifle??

 

[Seancass]

thats not what im saying. it's just crazy to me that the only reason is because there is no stockcause the manufacturer says its a pistol but if you put on a stock its a rifle. The only reason is because it is made and sold as a pistol and meets the legal definition. it will still be known to the manufacturer as a pistol. you just modified it at home.You can do whatever you want at home, but if you get caught, it's illegal. but say it isnt manufactured with a stock but is longer than 26 inches. could they say its a pistol?No, this meets the legal definition of a rifle. cause law says anything under 26. im not saying because it looks like a rifle i guess alot of it had to do with the lengths.

See red.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

See red.

thats what i mean if under 26 is pistol and over 26 is rifle what makes it an SBR? theres no in between. is it solely stock+under 26 inches? i guess thats all thats left right?

 

[Seancass]

okay but if under 26 is a pistol and over is a rifle then where does that leave an SBR? is it just because if you shorten the barrel of a rifle and it still has the stock its an SBR? im confused because if it has no stock and its under 26 its a pistol. so if it formerly had a stock, putting it over 26 and you remove said stock, putting it under 26 then it becomes an SBR because it was formerly a true rifle??

The manufacturer is not making a rifle and then shortening the barrel and taking off the stock to make the pistol AR. They are making a pistol with an AR action and defining it as a pistol.

If you buy a pistol AR and YOU put a stock on it, it's an SBR. If YOU also put a 16" barrel on it you have made a rifle, which is legal. BUT YOU can not legally turn this rifle back into a pistol(NOW THAT is the weird part)

Over 26" overall and over 16" barrel is a rifle.
A pistol can never have a stock.

This is hard to explain without just quoting laws. But that's boring.

 

[Seancass]

thats what i mean if under 26 is pistol and over 26 is rifle what makes it an SBR? theres no in between. is it solely stock+under 26 inches? i guess thats all thats left right?

Yup, a pistol can never have a stock.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

The manufacturer is not making a rifle and then shortening the barrel and taking off the stock to make the pistol AR. They are making a pistol with an AR action and defining it as a pistol.
.

no no my point there was that if YOU took off the stock it would be an SBR?

i know the manufacturer didnt start with a rifle and shorten it. that makes no sense what-so-ever. i never thought that.

 

[Seancass]

no no my point there was that if YOU took off the stock it would be an SBR?Yup, if it no longer meets the definition of a rifle.

i know the manufacturer didnt start with a rifle and shorten it. that makes no sense what-so-ever. i never thought that.I wasn't trying to insult you, if it came off that way i appologize. The action it's self must be defined as a pistol or a rifle when the serial number is applied.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

where does this stand then? im guessing its under 26 but it has a stock. the stock is an add on so it never was a rifle. AOW??? this is all so confusing!!!

(disregard the fact that it is selective fire, thats not the point here)

 

[Lobo]

no no my point there was that if YOU took off the stock it would be an SBR?

i know the manufacturer didnt start with a rifle and shorten it. that makes no sense what-so-ever. i never thought that.

EDITED:

Found this: http://www.quarterbore.com/library/pdf_files/shortbarreledriflefaq.pdf

US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter, Sec. 921.

(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

Apparently, the key requirements for labeling a firearm an SBR are a barrel under 16", or something altered from a rifle to be under 26" in overall length.