Warning about Shoot Point Blank

[KellyinAvon]

Fortunately I have never been delayed in all my years now. I have friends from the Military that get delayed every time because of their Clearance level from the Military.

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[BugI02]

Funny story, I actually knew a girl who did just that. She was... odd. And she did just that. Stripped to pay for college, paid cash, and quit when she graduated, with no debt that I am aware of.

That's a lot of $1 bills

 

[tcecil88]

That makes absolutely no sense.

Just saying what the people at the gun shops have told my Military friends that have been delayed alot. Whether its true or not, who knows. We all know that the gun store counter people and internet commandos are often mistaken.
Supposedly it has to do with the road blocks that the NICS has to go through to get to the information they want, but I don't know. I had a Secret Clearance but have never been delayed. The two guys that I know that it happens to frequently do not have common names, and the only thing they have in common were there Clearance levels from the Military.

 

[tcecil88]

I did an Google search and there is mixed responses on the Clearance level and NICS delays. Most people with TS clearance have not had any trouble. So who really knows. The NICS System sucks but it is what we have to work with currently. I count my blessings that I have never been delayed.

 

[VERT]

Gun shops have no idea why a NICS check might be delayed. We can only speculate. Probably as simple as a person with a similar name and similar birthdate was naughty.

As far as the 3 day release date for Brady, shops can choose to follow that or not. The big box stores have everything to lose and nothing to gain so they have no reason to transfer a gun without a NICS proceed. They know most gun buyers will burn $20 worth of gas and waste an hour standing in line to save $10 on a gun. Somebody will buy it.

 

[Tomc1947]

That makes absolutely no sense.

I've never been delayed and I had a TS clearance.
I've never had to wait more than 5 or 10 minutes for approval.

 

[DadSmith]

I by mostly from local gun shops and they are often family ran.

I've not been delayed at all and usually get approved 5 mins or less.

They all call in yet and do not use a computer to do it.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Just saying what the people at the gun shops have told my Military friends that have been delayed alot. Whether its true or not, who knows. We all know that the gun store counter people and internet commandos are often mistaken.
Supposedly it has to do with the road blocks that the NICS has to go through to get to the information they want, but I don't know. I had a Secret Clearance but have never been delayed. The two guys that I know that it happens to frequently do not have common names, and the only thing they have in common were there Clearance levels from the Military.

I can understand that. It does make me wonder how much info is out there at the fingertips of people who really have no need to know on information like security clearances.

 

[mmpsteve]

Gun shops have no idea why a NICS check might be delayed. We can only speculate. Probably as simple as a person with a similar name and similar birthdate was naughty.

As far as the 3 day release date for Brady, shops can choose to follow that or not. The big box stores have everything to lose and nothing to gain so they have no reason to transfer a gun without a NICS proceed. They know most gun buyers will burn $20 worth of gas and waste an hour standing in line to save $10 on a gun. Somebody will buy it.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I see it a little different on 2 counts.

1. - The big box stores should have nothing to lose if they follow the law. In fact, when the delay occurs, the FFL is given a date upon which they may legally transfer said firearm, lacking a PROCEED. This just happened to me. My longarm arrived at my FFL - My B-Check was delayed, and the FFL told me when I could pick it up. Interesting fact - this was a Friday after lunch and they told me the date that popped up said the next Thursday, so the rest of Friday, Sat, Sunday don't count to the 72 hours. In my case, the PROCEED occurred before that Thursday pick up date. But if it hadn't, the FFL is perfectly within the law to transfer my firearm, and there is no issue. I'm not saying they should always proceed, if they know the buyer is sketchy, but if that is the case, they shouldn't be dealing with that person anyways.

2. - Yes, the big box store (or any FFL) has something to gain - my business. Given the choice, I'm going to an FFL that follows the law, yes, but that serves my interests best. Forcing me to wait extended times for my purchase, when it is perfectly legal to proceed, is not in my interest.

3. Oh, and point 3 ... **** them very much. They don't need my $$.

.

 

[VERT]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I see it a little different on 2 counts.

1. - The big box stores should have nothing to lose if they follow the law. In fact, when the delay occurs, the FFL is given a date upon which they may legally transfer said firearm, lacking a PROCEED. This just happened to me. My longarm arrived at my FFL - My B-Check was delayed, and the FFL told me when I could pick it up. Interesting fact - this was a Friday after lunch and they told me the date that popped up said the next Thursday, so the rest of Friday, Sat, Sunday don't count to the 72 hours. In my case, the PROCEED occurred before that Thursday pick up date. But if it hadn't, the FFL is perfectly within the law to transfer my firearm, and there is no issue. I'm not saying they should always proceed, if they know the buyer is sketchy, but if that is the case, they shouldn't be dealing with that person anyways.

2. - Yes, the big box store (or any FFL) has something to gain - my business. Given the choice, I'm going to an FFL that follows the law, yes, but that serves my interests best. Forcing me to wait extended times for my purchase, when it is perfectly legal to proceed, is not in my interest.

3. Oh, and point 3 ... **** them very much. They don't need my $$.

.

Regarding point #2 - No they don’t need your gun business. They need you to buy jeans, muck boots, fishing tackle, women’s seasonal fashion and dog food. (Insert whatever consumer good in here). Guns are just another consumer good and I don’t see corporate management risking the image of their overall business by letting a gun go out to a prohibited person. ATF is already up their rear orifices, especially those stores operating in multiple states. They are operating a business not making political statements.

scenario: Purchaser goes on delay. They wait the legal period of time and go back to the store and pickup the gun. Then a few days later the check shows denied. Big box store really doesn’t want or need or able to effectively handle/communicate this situation. Or even worse they release the gun and it ends up somewhere it doesn’t belong. They sure don’t need any of that hassle. The easy solution is to wait for a proceed with the corresponding reference number for the 4473. Now everything is documented and the figurative monkey is off their back.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

scenario: Purchaser goes on delay. They wait the legal period of time and go back to the store and pickup the gun. Then a few days later the check shows denied. Big box store really doesn’t want or need or able to effectively handle/communicate this situation. Or even worse they release the gun and it ends up somewhere it doesn’t belong. They sure don’t need any of that hassle. The easy solution is to wait for a proceed with the corresponding reference number for the 4473. Now everything is documented and the figurative monkey is off their back.

How is that scenario any different for a big box store vs. a mom & pop gun shop?

 

[VERT]

How is that scenario any different for a big box store vs. a mom & pop gun shop?

Technically none. But otherwise a lot. LGS or dedicated gun store has an owner or a manager who has an immediate and vested reason to follow through. Big Box store has a manager who is also dealing with Barbie touching Ken’s butt and worrying about who is going to fill Sally’s shift at the cash register because she didn’t show up and Bobby is on a bender. I know that is stereotyping and I apologize. But big corporate with out of state management, multiple stores, multiple departments, constant employee turnover are not exactly tooled up to notice and act on small details. Places like that need standardized ways for doing paperwork.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Places like that need standardized ways for doing paperwork.

They have a standardized way for doing paperwork. The Brady rule. 3 days delayed? Let it go. And in doing so, they would have followed the law to the letter. Seems simple enough.

 

[mmpsteve]

Regarding point #2 - No they don’t need your gun business. They need you to buy jeans, muck boots, fishing tackle, women’s seasonal fashion and dog food. (Insert whatever consumer good in here). Guns are just another consumer good and I don’t see corporate management risking the image of their overall business by letting a gun go out to a prohibited person. ATF is already up their rear orifices, especially those stores operating in multiple states. They are operating a business not making political statements.

scenario: Purchaser goes on delay. They wait the legal period of time and go back to the store and pickup the gun. Then a few days later the check shows denied. Big box store really doesn’t want or need or able to effectively handle/communicate this situation. Or even worse they release the gun and it ends up somewhere it doesn’t belong. They sure don’t need any of that hassle. The easy solution is to wait for a proceed with the corresponding reference number for the 4473. Now everything is documented and the figurative monkey is off their back.

I understand what you're saying, and I think you are describing the way it is, while I'm describing the way I think it should be. One final nitpick - I don't think operating WITHIN the letter of the law is making a political statement - and the law is 72 hours to proceed, barring a denial.

Respectfully,

Steve

 

[VERT]

Actually guys the “letter of the law” as I understand it is that an FFL can choose to release the gun after 3 days. They aren’t required to do so. Management for Cabelas/Bass Pro, Rural King and apparently Shoot Point Blank choose not to assume any potential extra work or liability.

If I owned a LGS I would choose to release the gun. If I managed a Big Box Store I would not. But my perspective is a little different since I have worked the gun counter at a LGS and my dad works the gun counter at a Cabelas.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Actually guys the “letter of the law” as I understand it is that an FFL can choose to release the gun after 3 days. They aren’t required to do so.

True. So as long as they abide by that, they have met their legal obligation, and it needs to go no further. Why go any further than what they are legally obligated to do? They've covered their asses at that point. Anything beyond that is just political posturing IMHO.

 

[NHT3]

Actually guys the “letter of the law” as I understand it is that an FFL can choose to release the gun after 3 days. They aren’t required to do so. Management for Cabelas/Bass Pro, Rural King and apparently Shoot Point Blank choose not to assume any potential extra work or liability.

If I owned a LGS I would choose to release the gun. If I managed a Big Box Store I would not. But my perspective is a little different since I have worked the gun counter at a LGS and my dad works the gun counter at a Cabelas.

Be aware, I talked with a couple of people at my local SPB today and they are not excited about the change but have no choice but to follow the new edict from corporate. They realize it's going to hurt sales but more importantly the local people are going to catch all the flack when they don't release the gun after 3 days. Expressing your displeasure to the corporate office is the only way to draw any attention to the subject. In other words, don't shoot the messenger. Just my

 

[WebSnyper]

Be aware, I talked with a couple of people at my local SPB today and they are not excited about the change but have no choice but to follow the new edict from corporate. They realize it's going to hurt sales but more importantly the local people are going to catch all the flack when they don't release the gun after 3 days. Expressing your displeasure to the corporate office is the only way to draw any attention to the subject. In other words, don't shoot the messenger. Just my

Agreed, I'm sure it's the corporate legal counsel who has advised senior leadership of the company to make these decisions.

And customers having this info can make their informed decision.

 

[Win52C]

I never had a delay until I bought a suppressor three or so years ago. The store that I got it from did a background check before I could take it home and I got delayed. I've been delayed every time since.

I’ve never been delayed, ever, on any purchase even with multiple NFA items over the course of years. I’m not afraid to put my SS# on the 4473 though. I figure once you’ve been down the NFA road they have everything anyway, so what’s it matter.

 

[jagibbons]

Pretty sure all big box stores do this. Legal CYA.

Exactly. Bigger companies that cross multiple states are bigger, more valuable targets for BATFE.