Wait, Tony Bennett IS a lying liar who lies to help his buddies?

[Mad Macs]

QFT and FIFY

BZZZT, wrong answer. Tony sucked, he was a terrible human, and now he's been caught CHEATING at the very system he set up to help out a buddy.

 

[long coat]

Please tell me how the teacher is to deal with this:
Kid in ISS is picked up early to go get pizza and or ice cream?
Kid didn't do homework because he wanted to play video games?
Has 2 kids in class that are not to be in the same class because they can't deal with each other, but no one changed the class list?
Kid has to be held to stop him from going after a kid, is sent to office and then sent to play WII games with the entire class?
Kid has a melt down because he didn't bring in some paper, its in his backpack?

 

[HoughMade]

So, how do we evaluate teacher quality?

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Please tell me how the teacher is to deal with this:
Kid in ISS is picked up early to go get pizza and or ice cream?
Kid didn't do homework because he wanted to play video games?
Has 2 kids in class that are not to be in the same class because they can't deal with each other, but no one changed the class list?
Kid has to be held to stop him from going after a kid, is sent to office and then sent to play WII games with the entire class?
Kid has a melt down because he didn't bring in some paper, its in his backpack?

Programming isn't easy either. Nor is being a cop, a lawyer, or any other profession. If you don't want the job, don't do it.
if you are looking for sympathy, you can find it in the dictionary - right between **** and syphilis.

Now - that said - I'm not TOTALLY unfeeling. And parents DO have a big responsibility. Many of them ARE causing the problems. Let natural selection do its thing in those cases. At the end of the day, it is a parent's right and responsibility to raise their kid. PERIOD. Some will be great parents some will be poor ones. That said - the school/gubbamint/state is NOT the correct substitute.

The great teachers will help kids succeed. And like in every profession, they will be recognized for it. Not by the school system - but by the parents and indeed by the kids, in the long run.

I also noticed that some of the problems you noted are distinctly administrative in nature. If the administration at a school sucks - don't send your kids there. And if you're a great teacher - vote with your feet! This happens with programming teams all of the time. If the person architecting the software sucks - the good programmers go elsewhere and join a better team. It will work like that for teachers too.

 

[Mad Macs]

So, how do we evaluate teacher quality?

Come up with a good REASONABLE answer and you could be a millionaire. Unfortunately politicians like to dictate how education runs and we know well they do everything else…...

 

[Mad Macs]

The great teachers will help kids succeed. And like in every profession, they will be recognized for it. Not by the school system - but by the parents and indeed by the kids, in the long run.

I also noticed that some of the problems you noted are distinctly administrative in nature. If the administration at a school sucks - don't send your kids there. And if you're a great teacher - vote with your feet! This happens with programming teams all of the time. If the person architecting the software sucks - the good programmers go elsewhere and join a better team. It will work like that for teachers too.

Agreed. I know certain districts are hemorrhaging teachers left and right due to poor administration. In fact, I can't believe the idiocy of some of these administrators with their long-term "non" thinking. Some districts had to make hard choices when Daniels pulled the rug out from under them, and they chose poorly.

 

[HoughMade]

Come up with a good REASONABLE answer and you could be a millionaire. Unfortunately politicians like to dictate how education runs and we know well they do everything else…...

My profession essentially regulates itself and is subject to legal controls. I'm a lawyer. If a lawyer doesn't get results, they eventually lose clients and get fired or go out of business.

Now, how do we apply such common-sense principles to public education:

Introduce standards? No, our job is too hard. What about problem students? Standards? How can there be standards?

Introduce competition? No, we need all the money we can get and more money is always the answer.

Teachers- you've chosen NOT to regulate your own industry. Someone is going to do it for you. No different than any other industry. Either offer solutions or stop complaining about the solutions other try.

 

[long coat]

The kid has a melt down and then goes to take the test that the teacher is graded on & for some reason he scores lower on it than before. So that teacher is a bad teacher.


How should it be done, I don't know.

 

[cosermann]

Sounds like most folks haven't heard the details of what happened and are going off half cocked in response to a news story.

The details: A system of metrics was setup to grade schools. When the grades came back it was obvious that the system failed to account for schools that didn't have some grades levels. (Although it's pretty uncommon for a public high school not to have grades 9-12, some startups/charter schools, etc. don't have some of the higher grade levels . . . yet.) For example, the school in question in the article only went up through, 10th grade I believe. So, they got dinged on things like "graduation rate" and other metrics specifically related to the missing grade levels. This was not the only school so affected, there were 11 or 12 others. So, the grades were adjusted to account for the missing grade levels and accurately reflect the performance of those schools.

Simple. Nothing nefarious.

 

[Mad Macs]

Sounds like most folks haven't heard the details of what happened and are going off half cocked in response to a news story.

Simple explanation: A system of metrics was setup to grade schools. When the grades came back it was obvious that the system failed to account for schools that didn't have some grades. For example, the school in question in the article only went up through, 10th grade I believe. So, they got dinged on things like "graduation rate" and other metrics. This was not the only school so affected, there were 11 or 12 others. So, the grades were adjusted to account for that and accurately reflect the performance of those schools. Simple.

Sure, if you don't like how certain schools were graded, simply change the system. Too bad he refused to do that for schools that asked for this to be done that he didn't like. I know teachers who were graded POORLY because their test results were in the upper 90s and could not go any higher. When they complained they were told by Tony's office to deal with it, this was the new way of grading.

 

[octalman]

Gee, maybe the people who ousted him from public office in Indiana actually knew something.

Florida schools chief Tony Bennett 'raised grades' at donor Christel DeHaan's charter school | Mail Online

Yes, let's believe selectively edited and leaked information from the current group of liars and thieves that ran on a platform of NO accountability. Just a character assassination piece aimed at someone with enough backbone to oppose the teachers union gravy train. After Mr. Bennett was defeated by massive Union (protect the lazy and incompetent) money and has moved to another job and State lets be distracted by a shiny object and ignore current issues.

 

[Mad Macs]

Yes, let's believe selectively edited and leaked information from the current group of liars and thieves that ran on a platform of NO accountability. Just a character assassination piece aimed at someone with enough backbone to oppose the teachers union gravy train. After Mr. Bennett was defeated by massive Union (protect the lazy and incompetent) money and has moved to another job and State lets be distracted by a shiny object and ignore current issues.

Huh, so the fact that we could actually read Tony's email on the subject (they were public record) means nothing? Yeah, I know, he should have a big S on his chest for standing up to those mean and nasty teachers.

Please come back when you actually have read the information and not just spouted GOP nonsense regurgitated from Faux news.

 

[cosermann]

Sure, if you don't like how certain schools were graded, simply change the system.... .

Not the case at all.
When the system of measurement was setup, no one caught the fact that it would result in erroneous data for schools without all grade levels.
When the results came out, people looked at them to see if they made sense. For a number of schools they did not and the reason was obvious.
When you setup a model to measure something, it has to go through a real world test to make sure the model returns accurate results.
This kind of thing happens all the time in lots of fields. Believe what you want, but I don't see anything coming of this just based on what I know.
Personally, I don't have a dog in this fight.

 

[Mad Macs]

Not the case at all.
When the system of measurement was setup, no one caught the fact that it would result in erroneous data for schools without all grade levels.
When the results came out, people looked at them to see if they made sense. For a number of schools they did not and the reason was obvious.
When you setup a model to measure something, it has to go through a real world test to make sure the model returns accurate results.
This kind of thing happens all the time in lots of fields. Believe what you want, but I don't see anything coming of this just based on what I know.
Personally, I don't have a dog in this fight.

So what about the teachers and schools that complained about getting graded poorly because they were ALREADY performing well but didn't improve? Tony's office told them to just deal with it.

The problem is the he was selectively manipulative of the standards by which these schools were graded. He wouldn't change the system for school A but for school B it made sense? Oh, and school B also happened to donate a LOT of $$$ to his political party and more specifically to his campaign.

 

[long coat]

They just said on the radio that Tony has quit his job in FL.

 

[glockednlocked]

Yea!! He gets the vacation house in Fla. and the golden parachute from State of Florida and he is available to come back to Indiana after Glenda and her rainbow sticker bedazzled prius drive off into the sunset. Win Win Win

 

[Mad Macs]

Yea!! He gets the vacation house in Fla. and the golden parachute from State of Florida and he is available to come back to Indiana after Glenda and her rainbow sticker bedazzled prius drive off into the sunset. Win Win Win

He's done in education unless some of his GOP cronies want him to cook books elsewhere. If he comes back to Indiana and tries to get into any office here every teacher in the state will probably walk off the job.

 

[octalman]

Huh, so the fact that we could actually read Tony's email on the subject (they were public record) means nothing? Yeah, I know, he should have a big S on his chest for standing up to those mean and nasty teachers.

Please come back when you actually have read the information and not just spouted GOP nonsense regurgitated from Faux news.

Where did I say anything about political affiliation or News outlets? Since you bring up GOP and FOX News, who is it that is looking at this issue through the prism of political affiliation?

Yes, lets do talk facts. The e-mails in question are NOT available to anyone that shows up and says, "Hey, I want to read some e-mails from a government official." They are considered part of the "public record" to the extent that anyone can submit a Freedom of Information Request. The request has to specify a limited time period of interest and what type documents are being requested. You can't just request all written or electronic information from official XYZ during the entire tenure in office to go on a fishing expedition. Credible journalists have gone on record indicating there had to be a leak from inside, otherwise a Freedom of Information Request would never have been submitted.

As cosermann pointed out, the grading system was clearly flawed. The DeHaan Charter School, and others, had not been in existence long enough to have a graduating class. No graduates - penalty assessed. Clearly a flaw in the system. Ms. DeHann, or representatives from any other school, should have the right to make sure the grading system is as fair and impartial as possible. If Mr. Bennett was intent on rewarding a political donor, the rating system would have been skewed heavily in favor of Charter Schools from the git-go, not be flawed to incorrectly penalize. Your accusation of special treatment fails the fact check.

Produce proof that any Charter School was given special consideration based on a fair and impartial apples to apples comparison.

But hey, go ahead an chase that shiny object (manufactured controversy for the easily distracted) and don't look too close at what the current leadership is up to.

 

[CarmelHP]

Tony earned a well-deserved firing by the voters. He had a lot of sleazes in his office, and an organization usually rots from the head down.

 

[glockednlocked]

I agree of course he isn't coming back (and really why would he want to?) but It is fun to poke the union schills . Public education is such a mess I really cant lose much sleep over anything that happens in that cesspool. I only reserve the right to complain and poke fun do to the occasions I feel despair for the kids who's parents subject them to it.
(oh and of course the 2 days a year I write property tax checks to fund all the foolishness.)