Wait, Tony Bennett IS a lying liar who lies to help his buddies?

[cosermann]

And I the only one who thought about the REAL Tony Bennett before coming into this thread?

https://tonybennett.com/

 

[ghuns]

And I the only one who thought about the REAL Tony Bennett before coming into this thread?

https://tonybennett.com/

Tell us about the REAL Tony Bennett Grandpa. Did you listen to his songs on those frisbee lookin things?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Fair enough. I had some bad teachers too. I even swore at one who was a complete jerk to me in high school. Doesn't mean all teachers are that bad, nor do all teachers want to "indoctrinate" your children to be sheep.

I was just backing you that a child's grades don't usually suffer just because the parent's views aren't well received. I wasn't trying to make any overarching comment on the fitness of public education.

On a side note, I watched Bennett when he was still an assistant principal at a small town high school. I don't know how he's advanced himself as fast as he has, but I always believed Tony's biggest fan was definitely Tony. He may (or may not) be a great guy, but he was one of those fellows who just rubbed me the wrong way from the get go and it never improved.

 

[nickman54]

As a parent and the spouse of an educator I can see both sides of this issue. Teachers NEED time to collaborate with each other and to research/present new methods of teaching to each other. Let's face it, if you have kids all day long, you can't exactly just leave them and go work with other teachers as needed.

As a parent I hated it, I still hate late starts when the weather is bad. Messes up my schedule big time for getting to work.

Your kidding right??? Don't they have all summer off? Teachers asking for more time to research methods should figure out how to use their time more wisely.

 

[glockednlocked]

I am glad the unions "punished" Tony by sending him packing He has to hate florida and the pay raise he got. Education is a big business and it makes the unions a lot of money as well as indoctrinating good little libs to vote for the obamas of tomorrow. Public schools will see more and more parents leave them behind and go other routes to educating children. Public school teachers will be left to just "preach to the choir" of next generation welfare rats who cant escape the sinking ship.

 

[Mad Macs]

Your kidding right??? Don't they have all summer off? Teachers asking for more time to research methods should figure out how to use their time more wisely.

I meant planning during the school year. How can they collaborate regarding a child's education and modify anything during the summer? Teachers already work 40 hour weeks at least with no lunch or prep for most of them.

 

[Mad Macs]

I am glad the unions "punished" Tony by sending him packing He has to hate florida and the pay raise he got. Education is a big business and it makes the unions a lot of money as well as indoctrinating good little libs to vote for the obamas of tomorrow. Public schools will see more and more parents leave them behind and go other routes to educating children. Public school teachers will be left to just "preach to the choir" of next generation welfare rats who cant escape the sinking ship.

I'm sorry, but this is just ignorance speaking here.

 

[long coat]

I meant planning during the school year. How can they collaborate regarding a child's education and modify anything during the summer? Teachers already work 40 hour weeks at least with no lunch or prep for most of them.

Where is this school, I will have my wife appy there. Its 10:16pm and she is still at school.

I was going to type up alot of stuff, but my wife would kill me for talking about it here online.

 

[Mad Macs]

Where is this school, I will have my wife appy there. Its 10:16pm and she is still at school.

I was going to type up alot of stuff, but my wife would kill me for talking about it here online.

Well, mine worked on her classroom saturday AND Sunday so she's home at a reasonable time this week so far. Mine has kids TOMORROW so I might not see her for a week or two as she will probably end up working 14 hour days at least.

Oh, and my wife's school doesn't do any of this stuff, but back in the day, schools used to give teachers a prep period AND a lunch. Spoiled brats they were. My wife hasn't had a lunch in 4 years nor any prep.

 

[Classic]

I have been graded on performance on every job I have ever held, regardless of how much control I had over inputs. Sometimes you get good inputs and sometimes you get bad inputs but for most of us ordinary humans our performance is what gets graded. I was never able to understand the objections of the teacher's and their unions to being graded on performance when they grade their students every day or why they feel they are entitled to live in a system with no grading aside from how long you have been in the system.

While not many posters in this thread are interested in the truth about the "adjustments" made for Christel House Academy and a handful of other schools who only have students through 10th grade or so. They have no grad rates, fewer AP classes and less scholarship numbers because of this and the scoring method was adjusted to compensate for this set of conditions. Christel House being designated a "C" school was a ridiculously low score that identified the problem. Look at the record of awards they have achieved over the years.

 

[Mad Macs]

Classic, here's the problem. If your kids are getting a high score and they continue to score well you are actually graded POORLY because there was no improvement. Nevermind that your kids are doing a great job on their tests. Here's another problem, if you're a special education teacher your kids will fail. Period. Your scores will reflect this.

 

[long coat]

My wife has been in the room all this week and some last week.
What school does your wife work at, PM if you want.

All it takes is 1 kid in the room that has a melt down about every day to lower all the kids test scores, so that makes the teacher a bad teacher.

 

[long coat]

Classic, here's the problem. If your kids are getting a high score and they continue to score well you are actually graded POORLY because there was no improvement.

Last year our sons teacher said she told her husband that she would be let go in about 2 years for this.


Also if your kid in 3rd grade is reading at a 5th grade level, but is a low 5th grade level, the kid gets a D in reading.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Mad Macs, Long Coat, et al. - I understand the hatred of the testing system. In the end - it DOES NOT make sense. I agree with you there. Especially when it is applied in the typical bureaucratic same sense as every other zero tolerance BS policy. The problem is that you can't have it both ways. You can't hide behind the system and decry it at the same time - and still have any intellectual honesty in your argument.

I AGREE that the "standardized testing" is not the right answer. All that does is lead to "standardized teaching" to meet the requirements - ie. the test.

I propose a higher and more rigorous standard. One that requires NO extra money. No testing. No nothing.

What is it, you ask? Simple - let the parents judge whether they think little Johnny is getting smarter. Offer SAT style tests for getting into college - and at other levels. But let the parents decide what's working or not. And let them freely move their kids from one school to another if they don't like it. It's called COMPETITION. And it doesn't matter if the school is sponsored by a parent group, a church (of any kind), or it's a public school. They all operate on the same basic amount per student. But parents can vote with their feet. If I can make a school that has less administration - and more high quality teachers - then why the heck shouldn't I?

Such a system would inherently gut the excessive overreaching of the BS administrations in most schools - and yet allow for the minimum needed - and some IS required.

This idea is along the lines of a voucher program. But there has to be a commitment to it for at least ten years - otherwise - no one will make the capital investment in a school for a shorter duration.

Now - take that to your local teachers union and see what happens. If they are for such an idea - then it truly is "about the kids". If not, they are in it for themselves and lose all credibility in my eyes. I know a LOT of teachers that would be for such a move. The ones that are, are typically the ones that I want teaching my kids. They are the ones that are fighting through the bureaucracy and iguana to actually teach.

So get rid of the problem of standardized testing as the sole measure - I AGREE. But replace it with TRUE accountability to parents. And watch what happens.

 

[Mad Macs]

Armedprogrammer, are you suggesting that parents need to be directly involved in their children's education? I know thousands of teachers that would agree with you.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Armedprogrammer, are you suggesting that parents need to be directly involved in their children's education? I know thousands of teachers that would agree with you.

Yup - and I know a LOT of administration (especially at the Superintendent level) and a LOT of Teachers UNION folks that don't want it (not to be confused with real TEACHERS). And can and will get in the way. I know this first hand. In fairness - there are a lot of dumbass parents out there who don't give a crap too.... All of that said - the free market works with everything else. Why not education? (Hint - it will even work with dumbass parents that don't care... it's called "survival of the fittest". We just have to let natural selection take its course.). And yeah, I'm in a harsh mood today. (but it's an even-handed kind of harsh... )

 

[blamecharles]

I have no kids of my own to base this argument on although i did just start going back to college after 18 years in the real world. I tested into college level on everything but the math which i am taking finals today for the remedial class. I can say that after 18 years away from math i am still ahead of almost every high school aged person on the campus. Is that reflecting some of the "teaching" going on or is it the "administrating". In my opinion the standardized tests get too much attention, nobody is LEARNING anything except how to pass the standardized tests.

 

[Mad Macs]

Yup - and I know a LOT of administration (especially at the Superintendent level) and a LOT of Teachers UNION folks that don't want it (not to be confused with real TEACHERS). And can and will get in the way. I know this first hand. In fairness - there are a lot of dumbass parents out there who don't give a crap too.... All of that said - the free market works with everything else. Why not education? (Hint - it will even work with dumbass parents that don't care... it's called "survival of the fittest". We just have to let natural selection take its course.). And yeah, I'm in a harsh mood today. (but it's an even-handed kind of harsh... )

Interesting because all of the school district administrators I've talked to want parents to get off their butts and actually PARENT their children. Not sure about unions however, since I never belonged to one even when I was a teacher.

When I was going for my Masters in Ed I had a professor from Africa. He said that in their school system if you don't do the work, you simply do not pass. All it took was for a kid to fail maybe twice before he got his act together and worked to make sure it never happened again. The public ridicule and shame would force them to work harder.

Too bad teachers here can't do that, somebody would sue the teacher for "hurting their baby's feelings."

 

[HoughMade]

Too much thread to read. All I'll say is this:

I'll have no use for Tony Bennett as long as recordings of Frank Sinatra exist. Second rate hack.

 

[kludge]

Well, to be fair, Bennett was ousted by a massive effort on the part of the teachers' union who balked at being held accountable for their results.

QFT and FIFY