US, Britain, and Israel have used chemical weapons within the last 10 years

[Jarhead77]

IBTL

 

[Bennettjh]

Brought extra.

 

[Kagnew]

I'll see your DD 214 and raise you a Blue ID. What the hell's wrong man?

I'll see that and raise you another blue ID.

And I'm not saying just what I did overseas, but I've never had any qualms as to whether or not it was worth it.

 

[Manatee]

I'll see your DD 214 and raise you a Blue ID. What the hell's wrong man?

He made it personal and it didn't start with this thread. It's not your fight.

 

[Manatee]

I'll see that and raise you another blue ID.

And I'm not saying just what I did overseas, but I've never had any qualms as to whether or not it was worth it.

And what war was that? I thought you were an old guy.

Some of us question whether any of this makes sense any more. We haven't fought a "necessary" war since WWII. Some say Korea...and I'll give them that. You'd be hard-pressed to find a retired general my age who would tell you that Vietnam was a necessary war. That we understood why we were there. At the time, we certainly didn't understand that Vietnam had been fighting the Chinese for hundreds of years. We thought we were fighting communism. Didn't exactly turn out that way, did it? But our politicians and military were sure we were there for the right reasons.

Just as certain as they are today that we need "to do something" in Syria.

There used to be a time that I believed that the top brass and civilian leadership was dealing with better information. That they knew things that weren't obvious and we had to trust they were acting in good faith on behalf of you and me.

Well, after so many years and so many conflicts where it has been shown that they haven't acted in that manner, it's time to call them on it and say "enough".

No on Syria.

 

[jbombelli]

He made it personal and it didn't start with this thread. It's not your fight.

I guess when you post stupid things (like proclaiming the right thing to do when someone follows you is shoot him), and don't stick to the topic being discussed (like this thread, bringing in Iraq, WMDs, and the fact that you're a veteran in an attempt to lend credibility to your words), and then you tell me to "pound sand" because you don't like being called on it, it's all ME "making it personal." YOU of course had nothing to do with it and are just the poor, misunderstood innocent victim of my lack of tolerance and understanding.

 

[Kagnew]

And what war was that? I thought you were an old guy.

Probably before your time, Junior!

 

[Manatee]

I guess when you post stupid things (like proclaiming the right thing to do when someone follows you is shoot him), and don't stick to the topic being discussed (like this thread, bringing in Iraq, WMDs, and the fact that you're a veteran in an attempt to lend credibility to your words), and then you tell me to "pound sand" because you don't like being called on it, it's all ME "making it personal." YOU of course had nothing to do with it and are just the poor, misunderstood innocent victim of my lack of tolerance and understanding.

Churlish troll behavior will be discarded to the ignore list in 3.....2......1....

 

[jamil]

Churlish troll behavior will be discarded to the ignore list in 3.....2......1....

Dude, lighten up. It's only an internet forum.

 

[cobber]

Enough ignore to go around in this thread. At this rate we'll all have each other on ignore, and threads will all be one post. But,

Anti-Americanism + veteran **** measuring + weapons expertise acquired in COD = mucho


Please don't let it die!

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Enough ignore to go around in this thread. At this rate we'll all have each other on ignore, and threads will all be one post. But,

Anti-Americanism + veteran **** measuring + weapons expertise acquired in COD = mucho


Please don't let it die!

una tonelada de mierda

 

[jamil]

Enough ignore to go around in this thread. At this rate we'll all have each other on ignore, and threads will all be one post. But,

Anti-Americanism + veteran **** measuring + weapons expertise acquired in COD = mucho


Please don't let it die!

virtual rep

I say don't dish it out if you're so thin skinned that you need to "ignore" people who send the dish back. Also, be a man and admit your mistakes. Then you don't have to defend your bubble of faux intellectual invincibility. Note: rhetorical "you/your" implied.

<rep rant>
Ok, so just how much rep MUST I spread around before I can rep whomever I want. Jeeze, there's only so much you can do to prevent rep abuse before you make the whole thing useless!
</rep rant>

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

In the Conservative Dictionary's definition of "Anti-Americanism", the word "Liberal" appears 57 times.

The definitions of "Patriot" and "Superhero" contain the word "Conservative" 173 times combined.

 

[jbombelli]

Churlish troll behavior will be discarded to the ignore list in 3.....2......1....

Ignore lists are for panzies and weaklings who can't handle losing arguments to someone smarter than them.

That's why I don't have anybody on my ignore list.

 

[Manatee]

The hive mind...

 

[danielocean03]

Ok, this is an official in-thread warning, no further personal attacks.

 

[cobber]

una tonelada de mierda

ya ne ponemaiju!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

How's that? You have radioactive materials being propelled by explosive charges, I can't think of anything more similar than that. The only distinction to be made would be the intent, one intends to cause complications due to radiation while for the other that's just a side effect.

By the same logic, every bullet is a bomb. After all, its a chunk of metal being propelled by an explosive charge, I can't think of anything more similar than that.

I'm a veteran. I doubt you are.

I am. I even did demolitions in the military. I was even trained on phosphorus grenades for the purposes of sabotage (not the kind that explode everywhere, the kind that burn out the bottom like a big torch and cut their way through metal). I know the difference between chemical munitions and armor piercing ammunition.

If we're going to argue about the morality of various military actions, we should use the facts. The original post is misleading at best. WP and DU rounds aren't chemical weapons and more than a hypothetical deployment is a real deployment. Veteran or not doesn't change the facts.

Thanks. I just get irritated at times by some of the attitudes that result in our 19 and 20 year olds losing a limb or life, or dealing with ptsd because a politician wants to bring "our way of life" to others who abhor our way of life. It is now estimated that we will spend over $1 trillion dealing with the injuries to our combat veterans who served in A-stan and Iraq.

All valid points, and all very good reasons to stay out of Syria. However that's not the argument the article makes. Instead of making an appeal based on the truth, it tries to blur the lines between a chemical weapon and standard munitions. You can support your position of non-intervention with the facts, and do so strongly. However what the author has done is use misinformation and really made no argument for non-intervention but just tried to paint American in as negative a light as Syria is being painted, and doing so falsely.

I think people are missing the point when they say WP isn't a chemical weapon. The point is that it's use against civilians is banned by international law and we've used it on civilians in the last 10 years. How do we take the moral high ground/world police position on the use of chemical weapons in Syria when we don't have the best track record either? It saddens me that so many blindly support our corrupt, war-mongering gov't.

Actually, we are dealing with the exact point, which is that the article claims WP is a chemical weapon. That said, are you sure we violated international law by our use of WP at Fallujah? Using WP against entrenched combatants isn't exactly the same as targeting civilian populations with incendiary weapons. Feel free to start another thread if you'd like to discuss. Blackhawk says it perfectly:

WP has always been used -by policy- as a marking round for targets or as an obscurant; it's NEVER been used by US policy as an anti-personnel weapon. But it's used in mortar rounds, you say? Yep, mixed with anti-personnel rounds to cause confusion and obscure friendly movements.

Now...all that said, who cares? I've yet to figure out how its morally superior to hack someone to death with a machette in Rwanda than it is to asphyxiate someone with gas in Syria.

 

[Magneto]

 

[zippy23]

Its a common theme in this country. AR15s are assault rifles, flares are chemical weapons and a remote control helicopter with a camera on it is a drone.

He who controls the words....

What ^ said! Great point. What i wanna know is why would we get involved in muslims killing each other? Let them kill as many of themselves as possible. We should sit back and watch, have a beer, then go on TV and tell the world how horrible these people are. But that would make too much sense, and we have liberals running the country, so WW3 here we come!!