Traffic stop, officer confiscated my firearms.

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  • TTravis

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    The case took an interesting turn when I got all my discovery stuff from the prosecutor. It turns out that some *itch was behind us and made a 911 call saying off the wall stuff like "we were throwing beer cans out the windows", and "we were all over the road", and "almost took out a mailbox". I don't know what this woman's motivation was, but we weren't doing any of the above*** not even close. If the trailer swerved at all it was because of high wends as we were coming across 144. The same high winds on the same night that blew down the stage at the fairgrounds. There were a few gusts but no big deal. The windows in my van stopped working years ago so it was not possible to roll them down and throw cans out. There were cans in the boat, but they were all accounted for. My son and I would just not do that and I would not consider myself worthy of carrying if I were that type of person. It simply did not happen the way she described it. I decided to not call her in or attack her on it though.
    I did some legal research and it seems that a 911 call of a possible impaired driver is not probable cause unless the officer can collaborate the callers report by seeing signs of impaired driving. Keep in mind that the driving, as shown on video was perfect. Anyway, I made my point but did not have a case from Indiana to quote on it. I did trip up the officer who said that dispatch relayed all the details of the 911 call and I played the audio and demonstrated that the only information he had was "possible 1028 ??? (impaired driver) pulling a boat. In the end, the officer could do no wrong.

    The video did show that brake lights were working but officer still argued otherwise. I then brought up the actual IC about trailer brake lights and "mistake of law" but it did not quite stick.

    I then brought up that the officer had no proof that the driver was who he said he was and could be anybody, but the judge decided that the statements made at the time of the stop were enough.

    I have learned a lot of things.

    Don't let your underage, unlicensed, kid drive, although that is no longer an issue in my family as the kid, my youngest, is now 6 months older and has a permit.

    I successfully got the PBT results from being entered in evidence. I simply said that PBT test are not accurate, not admissible, and not a valid measurement of anything.

    Next time I get pulled over, I will have absolutely nothing to say to the officer.

    The guns were not an issue because I have my LTCH and it was perfectly legal for me to have them in the car.

    I have a much better understanding of my rights, in this case the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments. The prosecutor was shut down in her questioning a few times by my 5th amendment rights, and the 4th ammendment probable cause was my best chance of success. They did not even bring up firearms or PI. The deputy prosecutor did try to say that I could not take the 5th in a civil case, but they did have the PI and Neglect mentioned in the officer's probable cause statement so I could say that was potential for future criminal charges and I did not want to incriminate myself. Much of the questions were on paper before the trial in the form of "Interratortories" and "Admissions". I took the 5th on many questions and cited a Supreme Court case that said I could so so.

    I felt the judge was with me and allowed me to present my case, even overruling several objections by the prosecutor. She could see that I was trying my best to be prepared and put up a good defense, something that is rare in that court. I did not try any of the stupid stuff you read about beating a traffic case. Everything I asked and said had a valid point. I kept my cool and did not go after the 911 caller, officer or try to paint him as a incompetent jerk. Like I said, I lasted 1.5 hours, and I consider that to be an accomplishment. The trial was in Mooresville Town Court. I could probably get better at being a **it house lawyer, but this is not the type of thing I would want to practice enough to be good at. I feel like I learned a lot for my $150.

    In the end, I lost, but I put up a respectable fight and they had to earn their victory. I paid my fine immediately and it is all over with. I do not plan to appeal or go after the officer. I think it will be OK for me to drive through Mooresville.
     
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    TTravis

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    I think the lady that called 911 on us was the same lady in this commercial. No wonder she hates boats and fishing, and probably even guys and guns. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgFhJN4H0T0[/ame]
     
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    Hayseed_40

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    I feel like I learned a lot for my $150.

    In the end, I lost, but I put up a respectable fight and they had to earn their victory. I paid my fine immediately and it is all over with. I do not plan to appeal or go after the officer. I think it will be OK for me to drive through Mooresville.


    This is a start - but it does not sound as if you really learned anything.
     
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    dom1104

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    Drinkin, Guns, and Fishin boats, underaged drivers and lawyers printing out INGO.

    Wow.

    Rednecklicious. :)
     

    cbseniour

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    A friend from AA used say that if you don't want to fall down you should stay out of slippery places. In other words don't set yourself up for a fall.
    If you are going to carry guns don't drink, If you are going to drink and drive by all means leave your guns at home.
     

    TTravis

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    With an infraction such at this "Allow the Unlawful Use of a Vehicle" on my driving record, I've got to think up a good tall story to tell my future grandchildren! Maybe I can tell them a big story about smuggling, gun running, zombie hunting, intentional road kill, running over mailboxes or Obama signs, something crazy. "Permitting an Unlicensed Driver" would have been pretty straight forward, but unlawful use could be interesting. Anyone have any suggestions?
     
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    lrahm

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    I am not surprised about the 911 call during discovery. We get at least 10 - 15 calls per night on cars driving in an erratic manner.
     

    TTravis

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    Great story!! I wish I could have seen the stop and court

    I was thinking about posting the audio and video. I have it, but the lady 911 caller, who I am sure would like to remain anonymous, gave her personal identification information, and the officer spouts out his cell phone number in the video. I don't think it would go over too well if I posted it.
     
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    EvilBlackGun

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    ANYBODY

    .. could have copied all that of a scanner. Post it anonymously from your "discrete" other email address.
    I was thinking about posting the audio and video. I have it, but the lady 911 caller, who I am sure would like to remain anonymous, gave her personal identification information, and the officer spouts out his cell phone number in the video. I don't it would go over too well if I posted it.
     

    TTravis

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    I am not surprised about the 911 call during discovery. We get at least 10 - 15 calls per night on cars driving in an erratic manner.

    I bet you do with everyone having cell phones, but don't you tell the people about the 911 call when you pull them over? I did not find out about the 911 call until I got my discovery material a couple months after the stop! Withholding a probable cause just doesn't seem right. They were trying to ambush me. I know the prosecutor tried to ambush me with the INGO printout. That was priceless.
     

    lrahm

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    I bet you do with everyone having cell phones, but don't you tell the people about the 911 call when you pull them over? I did not find out about the 911 call until I got my discovery material a couple months after the stop! Withholding a probable cause just doesn't seem right. They were trying to ambush me. I know the prosecutor tried to ambush me with the INGO printout. That was priceless.

    That's why when you fight a case in court, you get a lawyer. He knows about discovery and suppression.
     

    TTravis

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    That's why when you fight a case in court, you get a lawyer. He knows about discovery and suppression.

    That was certainly a learning point for me. I didn't now anything at all about discovery and suppression 4th amendment rights until I started digging in and studying way more than an average person would. That's a s****y trick though. I just couldn't believe she had dozens of pages printed out from INGO with tabs, yellow highlighter and all. She handed it to me and asked me to read it. By that time I was so flustered, I couldn't read anything. Blood pressure was up, glasses were steaming, all I could see for sure was pictures of my bird dog in the left column of every page! She didn't like it when the judge allowed me to take the 5th and not admit to anything in the contents. Looking back, I probably could have objected because it was not listed in her list of evidence.
     

    TTravis

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    One other thing looking back that bugs me about the trial. There was no bailiff there. Nobody to protect me if the officer decided to pull out his gun and shoot me. I could have claimed intimidation.
     

    Hayseed_40

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    With an infraction such at this "Allow the Unlawful Use of a Vehicle" on my driving record, I've got to think up a good tall story to tell my future grandchildren! Maybe I can tell them a big story about smuggling, gun running, zombie hunting, intentional road kill, running over mailboxes or Obama signs, something crazy. "Permitting an Unlicensed Driver" would have been pretty straight forward, but unlawful use could be interesting. Anyone have any suggestions?


    I hope you are joking... There is nothing to be proud of in this thread.
     
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