Town Hall Meeting: INGO and Law Enforcement

[Ricnzak]

I was on when this thread first popped up. I did not respond even though I do have views that could lean on each side of the fence. I would like to say that our society never has fully appericated the work that our LEO departments perform. They are blamned for the low precentage of bad apples that make ther way into the departments. However when our child comes up missing who is the first people we call? Yeah, the drug dealers and the DUI guys on the mopeds who are ever vigilant for society.

Have I ever been on the side of the law that I belived was not fair? YES! Have I ever or would I ever want a society without the majority of the laws in place we have now? NO! Would I like the people who enforce these laws to disappear ? H_LL NO!

Even the best of each of us would be upset getting a ticket. Everyone of us would be upset losing a loved one with no one to turn to for help.

Just my

 

[Kick]

i think for the majority we have good LEO's here. I have butted heads with some. retirees dont count. but even bumping heads doesnt mean i dont have respect for the good job they do daily. Indianapolis and surrounding areas of indiana have had their fair share of bad cops and bad policies and I do feal bad for the good cops who get blamed just the same for it. But as ANY public servant you take heat for the whole group. it might not be fair but its life. i dont make the rules. I am one that doesnt just complain here about it. I regularly write and call my elected officials even if it is most times like banging your head into a concrete wall. so if something upsets me because I feel its wrong I try to make a change for the better through LEGAL action means. thats why I often ask people if they have called or written their elected officials in heated threads. to me, inaction is just as bad as committing the act because its basically acceptance. The cops here that would come to a meet and greet arent the cops we have problems with or criticize here. I dont see how calling out bad actions is called bashing. guys like uncle mike circle the wagons and turn more people off to leos than he turns on and he isnt even an leo anymore. sometimes when a cow gets put out to pasture it should just stay there and eat the free grass.

I'll agree with you on the inaction comment. I usually put it like this, "What you tolerate, you encourage."

However, guys like UncleMike have already forgotten more than I can ever hope to know. Even though he is retired, he is still a LEO. It's a brotherhood, just as a good deal of other organizations.

Kinda like once a Ranger, always a Ranger.

Once a Marine, Always a Marine.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I was on when this thread first popped up. I did not respond even though I do have views that could lean on each side of the fence. I would like to say that our society never has fully appericated the work that our LEO departments perform. They are blamned for the low precentage of bad apples that make ther way into the departments. However when our child comes up missing who is the first people we call? Yeah, the drug dealers and the DUI guys on the mopeds who are ever vigilant for society.

Have I ever been on the side of the law that I belived was not fair? YES! Have I ever or would I ever want a society without the majority of the laws in place we have now? NO! Would I like the people who enforce these laws to disappear ? H_LL NO!

Even the best of each of us would be upset getting a ticket. Everyone of us would be upset losing a loved one with no one to turn to for help.

Just my

hcontinuing to have rule of law is not the issue here. no one is calling for a disbandment of police. more like a restructuring and a smaller police force. just like the rest of govt.
but even thats not the point here.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I'll agree with you on the inaction comment. I usually put it like this, "What you tolerate, you encourage."

However, guys like UncleMike have already forgotten more than I can ever hope to know. Even though he is retired, he is still a LEO. It's a brotherhood, just as a good deal of other organizations.

Kinda like once a Ranger, always a Ranger.

Once a Marine, Always a Marine.

well he also stirs the pot just as much as anyone labeled a "cop basher or anti-leo" and he knows it and likes it. i think some people wan there to be a separation forever of leo and non-leo. i really do.

sorry but your comparison doesnt compute to me. i respect police, but its not even close to the same category or brotherhood as the military in my opinion. thats just insulting to me.

 

[UncleMike]

i think for the majority we have good LEO's here. I have butted heads with some. retirees dont count. but even bumping heads doesnt mean i dont have respect for the good job they do daily. Indianapolis and surrounding areas of indiana have had their fair share of bad cops and bad policies and I do feal bad for the good cops who get blamed just the same for it. But as ANY public servant you take heat for the whole group. it might not be fair but its life. i dont make the rules. I am one that doesnt just complain here about it. I regularly write and call my elected officials even if it is most times like banging your head into a concrete wall. so if something upsets me because I feel its wrong I try to make a change for the better through LEGAL action means. thats why I often ask people if they have called or written their elected officials in heated threads. to me, inaction is just as bad as committing the act because its basically acceptance. The cops here that would come to a meet and greet arent the cops we have problems with or criticize here. I dont see how calling out bad actions is called bashing. guys like uncle mike circle the wagons and turn more people off to leos than he turns on and he isnt even an leo anymore. sometimes when a cow gets put out to pasture it should just stay there and eat the free grass.

And when you're losing the argument resort to personal attacks to diffuse the issue.
BTW.
I still carry a badge, a sidearm that I qualify with every year, and have arrest powers.
When an Officer retires in Indiana he/she is placed on "Inactive Duty" status, is still bound by the Oath Of Office, and is subject to recall to active duty during an emergency.
Failure to return to active duty for other than health reasons will result in the Officers Pension being revoked.

 

[Benny]

However, guys like UncleMike have already forgotten more than I can ever hope to know.

Yeah, but how much of that was alcohol related?



Sorry, carry on.

 

[E5RANGER375]

And when you're losing the argument resort to personal attacks to diffuse the issue.
BTW.
I still carry a badge, a sidearm that I qualify with every year, and have arrest powers.
When an Officer retires in Indiana he/she is placed on "Inactive Duty" status, is still bound by the Oath Of Office, and is subject to recall to active duty during an emergency.
Failure to return to active duty for other than health reasons will result in the Officers Pension being revoked.

I'm not losing any argument. Im telling it like I see it. its not one to win or lose as individuals. we all win or lose this together mike. Its for country. thats what YOU do not understand.

arrest powers I have arrest powers too. its called citizens arrest. I can also be called back up, but not as a cop, and since it will never happen, I dont hold on to false hopes. "hey stop in the name of my hoverround!"

oh, and im still bound by oath too. thats why I take this so seriously

 

[Kick]

well he also stirs the pot just as much as anyone labeled a "cop basher or anti-leo" and he knows it and likes it. i think some people wan there to be a separation forever of leo and non-leo. i really do.

sorry but your comparison doesnt compute to me. i respect police, but its not even close to the same category or brotherhood as the military in my opinion. thats just insulting to me.

OK, the military lives in a lot closer of quarters and they do work that most cops prey that they never have to do. I am a huge supporter of the military and thank God everyday that there are men and women willing to make the ultimate sacrifice so that you and I can sit on the internet and have silly discussions like this.

However, after working the same job for 20-30 years, dealing with some of the same stuff that you military guys have and other stuff that most people would never even think of, how can you say that it does not compute to you? How could you say that it's not comparable. Granted police work is not being in combat in a desert but, it sure the hell is no picnic either.

(I am not complaining about it, I love it and I would not want to do anything else. Just like you would never complain about your military service)

 

[E5RANGER375]

OK, the military lives in a lot closer of quarters and they do work that most cops prey that they never have to do. I am a huge supporter of the military and thank God everyday that there are men and women willing to make the ultimate sacrifice so that you and I can sit on the internet and have silly discussions like this.

However, after working the same job for 20-30 years, dealing with some of the same stuff that you military guys have and other stuff that most people would never even think of, how can you say that it does not compute to you? How could you say that it's not comparable. Granted police work is not being in combat in a desert but, it sure the hell is no picnic either.

(I am not complaining about it, I love it and I would not want to do anything else. Just like you would never complain about your military service)

ok, i will step bback from this aspect of it. we will agree to disagree here please. I appreciate your service to your community.

 

[Kick]

ok, i will step bback from this aspect of it. we will agree to disagree here please. I appreciate your service to your community.

My close friend and my current partner is a Marine. I do not agree but, I understand. We can agree to disagree here. You military guys are very proud of your service and rightfully so.

 

[E5RANGER375]

My close friend and my current partner is a Marine. I do not agree but, I understand. We can agree to disagree here. You military guys are very proud of your service and rightfully so.

its just not even a point worth arguing about with each other you know. i dont have a problem with you. i dont recall any discussions we might have had but you seem down to earth. like I said before, i dont have a problem with 98% of LEOs here. or at least the ones that admit to being LEOs. the problems are mainly outside our community here. thats why I dont get why people would leave or not come here if they are cops? we arent discussing INGO cops. out of all the arguments or heated discussions here that I have had with REAL people and not trolls, I can only name maybe 3 people I wouldnt even wanna meet and only one LEO is on that list, and no its not uncle mike. Once i go to sleep, for the most part, it all fades away. i dont carry disagreements with me to the next day. well maybe sometimes. but not more than a week

 

[Kick]

its just not even a point worth arguing about with each other you know. i dont have a problem with you. i dont recall any discussions we might have had but you seem down to earth. like I said before, i dont have a problem with 98% of LEOs here. or at least the ones that admit to being LEOs. the problems are mainly outside our community here. thats why I dont get why people would leave or not come here if they are cops? we arent discussing INGO cops.

It goes back to the brotherhood thing. If I see a story about a cop or cops that disgraced my uniform, I am embarrassed and would love to see them pay for their actions. Just like if you see a story about a Ranger unit. If they disgraced your uniform, flame on.

Unfortunately, when you see people starting to pile on cops in general, stating that they do not trust the police, ect. It starts to get old. Just replace the word cop with ranger and it has to make a little more sense.

I would personally love it if the bad cops would all just find a new line of work. It would eliminate this whole discussion for sure!

*Disclaimer. I am not stating the a cop deserves trust just because he is a cop. I am saying that a cop deserves the same amount of trust as anyone else.

 

[E5RANGER375]

It goes back to the brotherhood thing. If I see a story about a cop or cops that disgraced my uniform, I am embarrassed and would love to see them pay for their actions. Just like if you see a story about a Ranger unit. If they disgraced your uniform, flame on.

Unfortunately, when you see people starting to pile on cops in general, stating that they do not trust the police, ect. It starts to get old. Just replace the word cop with ranger and it has to make a little more sense.

I would personally love it if the bad cops would all just find a new line of work. It would eliminate this whole discussion for sure!

*Disclaimer. I am not stating the a cop deserves trust just because he is a cop. I am saying that a cop deserves the same amount of trust as anyone else.

it depends. a tabbed "ranger" just means they completed a school in the Army (they dont even have to be U.S. Army to attend). A Scrolled Ranger as in part of a Ranger Battalion is the brotherhood. please dont take that as me saying the tab means nothing.

so its takes a little more than just a title or tab for me to TRULY consider someone my brother. im just giving you MY personal feelings on the matter.

and yes when I see wrong it pisses e off and shames me too.

------------------------

the part of your comment in blue is where you and I disagree on a fundamental issue. see police are part of the govt. no part of govt deserves trust immediately from the people. the people must always be skepticle of the govt just as any employer would watch over his workers. once a pattern of trust has been formed then respect and trst can be earned and shown. but as a whole the LEO community has some serious issues in the eyes of the people. im sorry that I cannot give blind trust to all leo's off the bat.

 

[Kick]

the part of your comment in blue is where you and I disagree on a fundamental issue. see police are part of the govt. no part of govt deserves trust immediately from the people. the people must always be skepticle of the govt just as any employer would watch over his workers. once a pattern of trust has been formed then respect and trst can be earned and shown. but as a whole the LEO community has some serious issues in the eyes of the people. im sorry that I cannot give blind trust to all leo's off the bat.

I do not give anyone "blind trust" maybe in a different day and age people gave trust, no questions asked. I simply start everyone off on a clean slate. Just because someone is a cop, they do not get any extra trust. Just because someone is a known criminal, they do not get any less trust. Everyone starts off at 0 or neutral with me. From that point trust is earned or lost on the individual basis.

I am simply saying that I don't see the reason to start off with distrust just because an individual is a cop.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I do not give anyone "blind trust" maybe in a different day and age people gave trust, no questions asked. I simply start everyone off on a clean slate. Just because someone is a cop, they do not get any extra trust. Just because someone is a known criminal, they do not get any less trust. Everyone starts off at 0 or neutral with me. From that point trust is earned or lost on the individual basis.

I am simply saying that I don't see the reason to start off with distrust just because an individual is a cop.

well the ONLY reason for me is because they have the authority to end my freedom. thats why I have the right to remain silent. so see even the law (the same law you enforce and that grants your authority) recognizes the need for pause or distrust. Its the beauty of the republic. dont look at it as a bad thing. no one can read minds or intentions. if we could, many wars in history would not have been fought. this works both ways. thats why i must show, (if stopped in a car) my license and my record can be reviewed, to show a picture of my history to let the officer better determine my intent or danger to him.

 

[Que]

Can this thread be closed now?

 

[E5RANGER375]

Can this thread be closed now?

i think we are making progress.

 

[jeremy]

It goes back to the brotherhood thing. If I see a story about a cop or cops that disgraced my uniform, I am embarrassed and would love to see them pay for their actions. Just like if you see a story about a Ranger unit. If they disgraced your uniform, flame on.

Unfortunately, when you see people starting to pile on cops in general, stating that they do not trust the police, ect. It starts to get old. Just replace the word cop with ranger and it has to make a little more sense.

I would personally love it if the bad cops would all just find a new line of work. It would eliminate this whole discussion for sure!

*Disclaimer. I am not stating the a cop deserves trust just because he is a cop. I am saying that a cop deserves the same amount of trust as anyone else.

I have stayed out of this discussion till now...
Why I am jumping into the Fire I don't know...

I think a lot of the Distrust comes from the fact that the "Brotherhood" on a Regular Basis protects the "bad" LEOs by trying to pretend that it does not happen/or not in the way it did happen. Until this practice changes...

the part of your comment in blue is where you and I disagree on a fundamental issue. see police are part of the govt. no part of govt deserves trust immediately from the people. the people must always be skepticle of the govt just as any employer would watch over his workers. once a pattern of trust has been formed then respect and trst can be earned and shown. but as a whole the LEO community has some serious issues in the eyes of the people. im sorry that I cannot give blind trust to all leo's off the bat.

Hell I don't even give Blind trust to another Veteran. Why in the Hell would I trust someone who is an LEO?!

 

[Que]

Now can this thread be closed?

 

[Benny]

Now can this thread be closed?

Shouldn't the OP/admin be the one to close it?