Town fines grieving parents who buried their infant on their property

[Benny]

Oooops! Accidentally pos repped this post when I meant to neg it. Someone help!

LOL, that's how he got back to green.

 

[88GT]

before they had these laws there werent as many people in the world as there is today. im sure even back then there were laws too.

What's that got to do with it? Give me a direct line of argument from more people to problems with private citizens burying their dead on their own property.

You said people would probably be doing a lot of things, as if only the existence of a law was keeping them from doing it. My point was that in the absence of such laws, there's no evidence that people were disposing of their dead in such a manner, so I have no reason to believe they would be doing it now.

Proper disposal of the body for sanitary purposes is part of the reason burial ceremonies developed and evolved. People know how to dispose of their dead without the .gov telling them how to do it. Sure, the poor sap on a .11 acre lot with all the utilities buried is going to have a difficult time being able to put more than Ma and Pa in the ground. But hopefully by the time Jr. and Sally kick the bucket, they can simply turn over the ground--kind of like stirring the compost pile--and start over again.

 

[edporch]

A lot of the government's attitude about being against small private cemeteries is about money.

They don't want the expense of having to move cemeteries and re-bury caskets when they confiscate your land for their latest property transfer scheme to get more property tax money.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Sadly, yes. Build without the permits and the city can force you to knock it down or pay heavy fines. My father-in-law was a building inspector for the City of Indianapolis. He eventually quit because he hated that he was expected to hammer "Joe Taxpayer" for violations but would get in trouble for doing the same to builders.

I've read, but don't have a link, that if your building on your property for your use, that there is case law that your not required to get a building permit. But I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to zoning ordinances.

It's sad that they don't have a problem with them burying their child on their property, but only if they pay for a zoning change.

before they had these laws there werent as many people in the world as there is today. im sure even back then there were laws too.

Ranger, I've heard that line of reasoning before from anti gunners.

I have already explained to my wife that when I become old(er), frail, and can no longer care for myself..........the 3 S's rule applies. If she felt some compassion she could go for a box of some kind, cardboard or pine but nothing more.

Should I be concerned if she starts showing more intrest in my guns?????

And before anyone says anything about joking in a thread like this.....you will notice none of that was in purple.

I've given my wife similar instructions. Although instead of the first s, it's a pillow or od.

Oooops! Accidentally pos repped this post when I meant to neg it. Someone help!

I've given out too much lately, but I'll take care of it when I recharge.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Ranger, I've heard that line of reasoning before from anti gunners.

totally different things, people can use whatever argument they want against guns but its constitutionally protected by the 2nd amendment. we are talking about disease and death resulting from the improper burial of corpses. they will affect the water and ground, also if improperly sealed the bodies will release toxic chemicals into the air from underground. theres no way it would be sanitary for everyone to bury people in their back yards. I think a permit in this case is appropriate to make sure no one else is harmed. I think the permit should be free.

 

[LPMan59]

what does this place do to medicaid/medicare recipients and their families who kick the bucket without a penny to their names? do they take the money out of their children's monthly check?

 

[eldirector]

I think the permit should be free.

Whoever requests the permit should pay for it (paperwork, filing, etc...). Not because the fee would discourage folks, but because we should each pay our own way. No reason for YOU to pay for MY permits.

I do agree that a "permit" of sorts is needed. If not for the health/sanitation reasons, than to at least allow FUTURE owners of the property to know there is a corpse buried in the yard.

All that said, it is too bad someone couldn't/wouldn't have stepped up to help this family out. It isn't like we were talking big money.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Whoever requests the permit should pay for it (paperwork, filing, etc...). Not because the fee would discourage folks, but because we should each pay our own way. No reason for YOU to pay for MY permits.

I do agree that a "permit" of sorts is needed. If not for the health/sanitation reasons, than to at least allow FUTURE owners of the property to know there is a corpse buried in the yard.

All that said, it is too bad someone couldn't/wouldn't have stepped up to help this family out. It isn't like we were talking big money.

see, I thought thats what we paid taxes for

I hate the fact that govt charges tax paying citizen any more money just for a document ect. its like paying for a passport, license, or vehicle registration, its ridiculous!

 

[eldirector]

what does this place do to medicaid/medicare recipients and their families who kick the bucket without a penny to their names? do they take the money out of their children's monthly check?

Paupers funeral, likely. Tax-funded burial or cremation. You and I pay to have them properly buried.

 

[eldirector]

see, I thought thats what we paid taxes for

I hate the fact that govt charges tax paying citizen any more money just for a document ect. its like paying for a passport, license, or vehicle registration, its ridiculous!

That's certainly what the world is coming to. Eventually, everything will be "free", because we pay our entire income in taxes. The socialist utopia.

I'd much rather you pay for only the services you use. If you want someone to come out an mark the location of a grave site, validate the corpse is properly buried, and add a note to your property records, then you can pay for it. If I want to bury my dead in a cemetery instead, I'll pay for that.

As for all of the income-generating "Fees and Permits" - yeah, they should all just go away. They are just another tax, with no real benefit.

 

[LPMan59]

Paupers funeral, likely. Tax-funded burial or cremation. You and I pay to have them properly buried.

that's kinda my point. why fine the family when this was an option, though perhaps not the best one. did the family refuse this option? regardless, this is a gut wrenching situation. i am surprised a church or local charity didn't offer to help.

if nothing else, i agree with your statement concerning any future property owners.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I'd much rather you pay for only the services you use.

I would love that. I would love to be able to not have to pay for the police services I dont use, or the fire services unless i need them. Thats the way I think it was supposed to be, but like you said ... socialism. its here and we wont get rid of it without a fight.

 

[chraland51]

I am staying out of this one since I can see good arguments for both sides. I just hope that the parents do not end up losing their house over this. Surely the town board could let the family make small monthly payments to cover the cost of whatever they end up having to do with the body of their child.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

totally different things, people can use whatever argument they want against guns but its constitutionally protected by the 2nd amendment. we are talking about disease and death resulting from the improper burial of corpses. they will affect the water and ground, also if improperly sealed the bodies will release toxic chemicals into the air from underground. theres no way it would be sanitary for everyone to bury people in their back yards. I think a permit in this case is appropriate to make sure no one else is harmed. I think the permit should be free.

I don't see it as totally different things. The only difference between my right to bury my loved ones on my property and my right to carry guns, is that one is named in the bill of rights, and the other is not named but included under the 9th amendment.

For the disease and death, how specifically is a dead human different than a dead dear/coyote/opossum/raccoon/squirrel/whatever? It's been recommended on this forum to leave shot coyotes in a pile as bait for other coyotes. I see dead critters all the time in the road or on the side of it. Should I be wearing a mask every time I go for a walk or a drive? My city cemetery is pretty dang small, I guarantee that all the folks around here who died during the time it was open were not buried there. Knowing the history of my house, it would not surprise me if there was a body somewhere on my property. I know for a fact that there are several critters buried on it, and none of them six feet deep. Should I move?

The coffin I want, since it's required that I be put in a box for cremation, is able to be ordered online and shipped directly to my house. But by law I can't do that. Only a funeral director can do that. How does that make it any safer? It only raises the cost.

I've given out too much lately, but I'll take care of it when I recharge.

Dross, I recharged.

I do agree that a "permit" of sorts is needed. If not for the health/sanitation reasons, than to at least allow FUTURE owners of the property to know there is a corpse buried in the yard.

All that said, it is too bad someone couldn't/wouldn't have stepped up to help this family out. It isn't like we were talking big money.

Why should the future owners need to know if there is a body in their yard? Other than to not disturb their rest. It wouldn't surprise me if there was one in mine, if I happen to dig one up I'll replant it or turn it over to the authorities. Most likely replant it. If they were buried there, let them rest there. I have no problems with that.

And no, we are talking about big money. Google the average cost of a funeral. By my moms request we went cheap. Rented a coffin, no embalming, no cemetery plot. It wasn't cheap.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I don't see it as totally different things. The only difference between my right to bury my loved ones on my property and my right to carry guns, is that one is named in the bill of rights, and the other is not named but included under the 9th amendment.

For the disease and death, how specifically is a dead human different than a dead dear/coyote/opossum/raccoon/squirrel/whatever? It's been recommended on this forum to leave shot coyotes in a pile as bait for other coyotes. I see dead critters all the time in the road or on the side of it. Should I be wearing a mask every time I go for a walk or a drive? My city cemetery is pretty dang small, I guarantee that all the folks around here who died during the time it was open were not buried there. Knowing the history of my house, it would not surprise me if there was a body somewhere on my property. I know for a fact that there are several critters buried on it, and none of them six feet deep. Should I move?

The coffin I want, since it's required that I be put in a box for cremation, is able to be ordered online and shipped directly to my house. But by law I can't do that. Only a funeral director can do that. How does that make it any safer? It only raises the cost.



Dross, I recharged.



Why should the future owners need to know if there is a body in their yard? Other than to not disturb their rest. It wouldn't surprise me if there was one in mine, if I happen to dig one up I'll replant it or turn it over to the authorities. Most likely replant it. If they were buried there, let them rest there. I have no problems with that.

And no, we are talking about big money. Google the average cost of a funeral. By my moms request we went cheap. Rented a coffin, no embalming, no cemetery plot. It wasn't cheap.

if you have the land I can see where you would want to be able to do as you please, and for the most part I think you should be able too with your land. but for the sake of arguement what if you died tomorrow and your heirs decided to sell the land that all your family was buried on and now theirs a sub division going in there. dead bodies on the land could affect other people now. so at the very least you can see how a permit makes sense so the govt knows where bodies are burried in case they need to be moved at a later date. does that make sense?

believe me, Im one who wants the govt to stay the heck out of our lives as much as possible but some things (requirements) do make sense.

 

[Grizhicks]

My problem with this case is; they changed the law after the fact and then "grandfathered" them into it. IF it was okay then they buried the child, then changing the law should not affect them. Just my 2-cents. -- Greg

 

[eldirector]

For the disease and death, how specifically is a dead human different than a dead dear/coyote/opossum/raccoon/squirrel/whatever?

Plenty of human-specific pathogens. I doubt that other site recommended letting coyotes rot in your back yard, though.

Why should the future owners need to know if there is a body in their yard?

So they don't try to drill a drinking water well right through the mess? I dunno, maybe lots of other reasons? If the PO's grandma died of a nasty infectious disease, I certainly would want to know if she was under 6" of topsoil right were my garden would be, or properly entombed and marked.

Even before we codified our customs in law, our ancestors had the good sense to plant the dead WAY from where they lived.

Granted, after a good 100 years or so, nothing but bones would remain and the vast majority of pathogens would be gone.

Besides, anyone see the movie Poltergeist?

 

[BigMatt]

This is why I am going to be cremated. I don't care where you are buried, sooner or later you are going to be dug up. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but in 100, 1000, 10,000 years, you will be dug up.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Plenty of human-specific pathogens. I doubt that other site recommended letting coyotes rot in your back yard, though.


So they don't try to drill a drinking water well right through the mess? I dunno, maybe lots of other reasons? If the PO's grandma died of a nasty infectious disease, I certainly would want to know if she was under 6" of topsoil right were my garden would be, or properly entombed and marked.

Even before we codified our customs in law, our ancestors had the good sense to plant the dead WAY from where they lived.

Granted, after a good 100 years or so, nothing but bones would remain and the vast majority of pathogens would be gone.

Besides, anyone see the movie Poltergeist?

& on the movie reference

 

[femurphy77]

I'm kind of surprised that this hasn't been raised yet, but I "believe" that in Indiana you can bury a human body on your property legally. There are of course stipulations but the only one I remember is that they have to be planted within 24-48 hours of death, no embalming is allowed as well as other restrictions but I can't place my finger on it at this moment. Perhaps someone with stronger googlefu?