Tonight at walmart

[public servant]

I don't really see how any store that sells guns can have a sign that says "No Guns Allowed.

Gun shops do it all the time.

 

[sjstill]

Gun shops do it all the time.

No LOADED firearms allowed sign at most gun shops.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

It still baffles me that people continue to cry about constitutional rights when referring to private business...

CIVICS FAIL.

The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, has NOTHING at all to do with private business. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Cero. Nilch.

Those sacred documents that we keep referring to? Yeah, they apply to GOVERNMENT. They limit the GOVERNMENT. Not private business.

"Shall Not be Infringed" doesn't apply to whatever rules there may or may not be at WalMart. Or KMart. Or Applebees. Or any other private establishment.

 

[jsharmon7]

On the other hand, a few argue that, like the gay community, "don't rock the boat" kept their issues from being heard and considered. Not until there were gay pride parades, get togethers, public displays, did the movement for acceptance gain any ground.

Soooo you're saying that open carriers are gay?

I kid, I kid!!!

 

[ATM]

But concealed carriers are just "closet gay."

(oops, that came out a little too pink didn't it...)

 

[BloodEclipse]

But concealed carriers are just "closet gay."

(oops, that came out a little too pink didn't it...)

No that seems like about the right shade actually.

 

[LEaSH]

But concealed carriers are just "closet gay."

(oops, that came out a little too pink didn't it...)

But my white leather galco goes fabulously with my pearl grips.

 

[lashicoN]

It still baffles me that people continue to cry about constitutional rights when referring to private business...

CIVICS FAIL.

The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, has NOTHING at all to do with private business. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Cero. Nilch.

Those sacred documents that we keep referring to? Yeah, they apply to GOVERNMENT. They limit the GOVERNMENT. Not private business.

"Shall Not be Infringed" doesn't apply to whatever rules there may or may not be at WalMart. Or KMart. Or Applebees. Or any other private establishment.

This is a common argument that I hear a lot around here. And you're completely right. The Bill of Rights does not "grant" people rights, it simply restricts government from "infringing or abridging" those rights. My point has always been, we can do it too. If the government decided it was legal to murder, would we suddenly feel it was right as well? I feel, as a freedom-loving American, that your rights are protected in my establishment, until you drive away my other customers. You can still exercise your rights, just do it out on the street or somewhere other than my place of business when you start to take money from my business. Just because the government doesn't make us do it, we shouldn't still honor and promote each other's rights as Americans? That's where I disagree with you. How is it right that government can't infringe on my rights, but the 80 year old Wal Mart greeter can? They are both human beings telling another human being "nuh uh, take it back to your car!" This is the problem with this country, we don't teach or promote freedom. We just pretend like the government can't touch us, even though they infringe on our Right to keep and bear arms every day and do nothing but abridge the freedom of speech. So, where is the freedom at? I still believe that private property rights and our freedoms as Americans can co-exist, if we're both smart and responsible about it. I'm not asking to drag a bleeding bag of dead cats through your store, I just want to keep my weapon for self-defense on me, holstered.

 

[public servant]

No LOADED firearms allowed sign at most gun shops.

They don't do much good unloaded. Expensive paper weights. It's still no different than Wal-Mart or anywhere else that hangs a sign.

 

[E5RANGER375]

yep signs hold no legal berring over the law. They can only ask you to leave and then you must comply or be tresspassed.

 

[sjstill]

They don't do much good unloaded. Expensive paper weights. It's still no different than Wal-Mart or anywhere else that hangs a sign.

Agree.

Was correcting the error in your post, however, not making a statement on the state of loaded or unloaded firearms.

Carry on.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Less than 15% of us carry weapons. I am one. I have a lot of guns, I like them, and I believe in an almost unfettered right to carry (felons excluded). However, along with my right comes the responsibility to not infringe others rights.

Superior to my right to carry, Walmart has the right to decide who does and doesn't enter their private property (within the confines of descrimination law), and has to weight the business implications of allowing someone with a open carried gun into their stores. I have the absolute right to decide if the parameters they have set (don't OC) are acceptable to me. If they are, I comply and go about my business with them. If not, I go elsewhere.

I CC almost 100% of the time. I respect if someone does not want me to carry on their property. Most of the time I could really care less what someone's 2A stance is when deciding when, if and how to do business.

People that want to OC in places that they know are not tolerant are only going to hurt us all. All Walmart has to do is say no guns on our property. If you are seen with one it is criminal tresspass. They do not have to ask you to leave. You can be arrested on the spot. You will go to jail. You will lose your CCW license. And you won't be able to carry a gun again for a very long time, if ever.

Sometimes you just have to ask yourself if it's worth the fight. This is one that I don't think is worth it. YMMV.

This is a common argument that I hear a lot around here. And you're completely right. The Bill of Rights does not "grant" people rights, it simply restricts government from "infringing or abridging" those rights. My point has always been, we can do it too. If the government decided it was legal to murder, would we suddenly feel it was right as well? I feel, as a freedom-loving American, that your rights are protected in my establishment, until you drive away my other customers. You can still exercise your rights, just do it out on the street or somewhere other than my place of business when you start to take money from my business. Just because the government doesn't make us do it, we shouldn't still honor and promote each other's rights as Americans? That's where I disagree with you. How is it right that government can't infringe on my rights, but the 80 year old Wal Mart greeter can? They are both human beings telling another human being "nuh uh, take it back to your car!" This is the problem with this country, we don't teach or promote freedom. We just pretend like the government can't touch us, even though they infringe on our Right to keep and bear arms every day and do nothing but abridge the freedom of speech. So, where is the freedom at? I still believe that private property rights and our freedoms as Americans can co-exist, if we're both smart and responsible about it. I'm not asking to drag a bleeding bag of dead cats through your store, I just want to keep my weapon for self-defense on me, holstered.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Less than 15% of us carry weapons. I am one. I have a lot of guns, I like them, and I believe in an almost unfettered right to carry (felons excluded). However, along with my right comes the responsibility to not infringe others rights.

Superior to my right to carry, Walmart has the right to decide who does and doesn't enter their private property (within the confines of descrimination law), and has to weight the business implications of allowing someone with a open carried gun into their stores. I have the absolute right to decide if the parameters they have set (don't OC) are acceptable to me. If they are, I comply and go about my business with them. If not, I go elsewhere.

I CC almost 100% of the time. I respect if someone does not want me to carry on their property. Most of the time I could really care less what someone's 2A stance is when deciding when, if and how to do business.

People that want to OC in places that they know are not tolerant are only going to hurt us all. All Walmart has to do is say no guns on our property. If you are seen with one it is criminal tresspass. They do not have to ask you to leave. You can be arrested on the spot. You will go to jail. You will lose your CCW license. And you won't be able to carry a gun again for a very long time, if ever.

Sometimes you just have to ask yourself if it's worth the fight. This is one that I don't think is worth it. YMMV.

The OP carried into a place of business who's corporate policy is to allow carry according to state law. The OP WAS complying with state law and therefore with Walmart's policy. The issues here are that the Walmart employees and the LEOs involved did not know or follow the corporate policy or the laws that they are sworn to uphold. The OP has taken the proper steps to cause remedial training for the parties involved.

You are not guilty of trespass merely by virtue of violating a business's policy. They must first ask you to leave. If they do, and you do not comply then you are trespassing.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Private property owners are entitled to allow who they want on their property. Walmart also reserves the right to refuse service to anyone, for any or no reason. Additionally, Walmart can call the police to have someone removed, even if Walmart's employees haven't approached the person.

I stand corrected on the trespass issue. Other states have more onerous laws than Indiana. In Texas for example it is criminal trespass to posess a weapon when a sign is posted. You do not have to be asked to leave.

The OP carried into a place of business who's corporate policy is to allow carry according to state law. The OP WAS complying with state law and therefore with Walmart's policy. The issues here are that the Walmart employees and the LEOs involved did not know or follow the corporate policy or the laws that they are sworn to uphold. The OP has taken the proper steps to cause remedial training for the parties involved.

You are not guilty of trespass merely by virtue of violating a business's policy. They must first ask you to leave. If they do, and you do not comply then you are trespassing.

 

[public servant]

Agree.

Was correcting the error in your post, however, not making a statement on the state of loaded or unloaded firearms.

Carry on.

Understood.

I think it would make more sense to begin to target those businesses that make a living "supporting" your 2A rights that currently restrict those same rights. (We'll sell it to you because you have the right to own it...just don't load it and bring it back inside.)

I find it rather ironic....a gun shop that will sell you firearms and ammo....won't allow you to bring the loaded weapon into their shop.

If you truly believe Wal-Mart...by asking you to cover up or leave with your gun is stepping on your toes...you should be outraged by gun shops not allowing you in.

 

[ezdubbin97]

did not know or follow the corporate policy or the laws that they are sworn to uphold.

No offense to you (or anyone else), but it cracked me up to hear "sworn to uphold" and Walmart employees in the same thought. A workforce made up of mostly high school kids earning $7/hr being sworn to uphold a policy makes me laugh, I doubt half of them have even opened the employee handbook.

Not making excuses or trying to offend, but unfortunately the staff is mostly uneducated about their product and policies.

Its not just Walmart though, I about fell on the floor laughing when I called a Dunham's the other night asking about stock on WASRs. I was transferred to an "expert" who said they were out. When I asked if they had any other AK variants in stock, the kid says "yeah, we got some AK-fody sevens...we got dis one dat has a stock that folds in front of da banana clip, its pretty cool"...

 

[rc5699]

No offense to anyone here, But I hate when I see people open carrying. I've carried a gun since I was 18. I've never once felt the need to walk around displaying it. The only people I personally have ever seen open carrying were morons that wanted to look like bad asses.

For example I went to a walmart and seen a fellow walking around with his 1911 in a shoulder holster on top of his jacket. He was going out of his way to make sure everyone got to see it. and all around him other customers were staring at him and obviously felt uncomfortable about it.

Sure your allowed to do it. But I see no reason at all to do it. I see it as something that hurts everyone with a LTCH. Also why would you want the attention that you know it will cause?

 

[public servant]

Somewhere...someone is beating a keyboard to death.

 

[CopperWires]

The tragedy of this story is the sheeple won this battle. They didn't learn anything and they will keep their head in the sand. The officer would eventually learn and maybe already knew the law but chose to appease the store's wishes. It sucks that you had to abide by the wishes w/o teaching everyone involved what the gun law actually states. But I think you did the right thing by leaving w/o causing a bigger scene than it was. That situation seems to hurt the 2A crowd more than helping. You don't want to seem like a nut with a gun by making a huge scene in order to convey the truth of the law to whoever may be watching. But you don't want to B!+ch out by simply leaving either. The people that see you leaving w/o hearing the truth never learn either. It just sucks!

HOW CAN WE HANDLE THIS DIFFERENTLY?

Not to hijack the thread but, it seems like we are always preaching to the choir. We need to spread this information to our neighbors, our countrymen w/o fitting they're twisted distorted perspective of the 2A supporter.

I'm thinking about a silent secret campaign of dropping non-intimidating media about in such places as magazine stacks at doctors/dentist offices, community bulletin boards, telephone poles with yard sale signs, and any other legal public places that will spread the word. I'm talking about flyers with an interesting fact and a source to check out the gun law. Anti-gun people see NRA and they turn and run. Sometimes that just doesn't work. We need an inconspicuous source for information like the FBI statistics.

 

[38special]

Understood.

I think it would make more sense to begin to target those businesses that make a living "supporting" your 2A rights that currently restrict those same rights. (We'll sell it to you because you have the right to own it...just don't load it and bring it back inside.)

I find it rather ironic....a gun shop that will sell you firearms and ammo....won't allow you to bring the loaded weapon into their shop.

If you truly believe Wal-Mart...by asking you to cover up or leave with your gun is stepping on your toes...you should be outraged by gun shops not allowing you in.

Probably insurance reasons.