This is what the "voluntary" house-to-house searches looked like in Watertown

[VN Vet]

That is the house where BG #2 lived.

 

[Destro]

How many in Massachusetts know they have rights? And how many believe "Only the guilty need rights." I've run into that before.

What business is it of yours to second guess people 1k miles away if people are willing to consent to a search of their home? Allowing law enforcement to search your home is an equal exercise of liberty

 

[actaeon277]

What business is it of yours to second guess people 1k miles away if people are willing to consent to a search of their home? Allowing law enforcement to search your home is an equal exercise of liberty

Yes. I actually agree they can choose.
And I can say its hard to choose with several guns pointed at you and your loved ones.
In fact, I can second guess all I want. If you dont like second guessing the powers that be, there are plenty of places where that's not allowed.

 

[fireblade]

What business is it of yours to second guess people 1k miles away if people are willing to consent to a search of their home? Allowing law enforcement to search your home is an equal exercise of liberty

Karma

 

[PriestEG]

wonder what Indiana's castle doctrine would say about some 4th Am violating searches like this.. cuz i tell you what, my door sure wouldnt be opening for some jack wagons like this!!!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Here's more footage of other homes being treated the same way. Families rushed out, teams of police rush in. More terrorist hideouts getting special attention. Lots of isolated incidents that day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKmp8-ovdIE

AGAIN, you have no idea if these people's rights were infringed upon or not. How do you know that consent was not given?

 

[Kutnupe14]

wonder what Indiana's castle doctrine would say about some 4th Am violating searches like this.. cuz i tell you what, my door sure wouldnt be opening for some jack wagons like this!!!

Like what? Which vid are you referring to? And if it's the ones I've seen, you must have one hell of a powerful crystal ball to know what was asked, what was allowed, or what was contested.

 

[rambone]

To Kutnupe14, 88gt, Destro, and anyone else interested;

Here is more news coverage reaffirming what has been said all along. Another victim describes how involuntary these searches were. First words from the officers mouths were "GET OUT" as they stand there with guns drawn.

No one was allowed in or out. Total lockdown. First time in modern history that a governor has made such a declaration, according to WHDH 7NEWS.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Gb6i5DF9k[/ame]

 

[jbombelli]

AGAIN, you have no idea if these people's rights were infringed upon or not. How do you know that consent was not given?

Is it really free and voluntary consent when you open your door to half a dozen armed men, pointing guns at you, saying "GET OUT HERE! AND WE WANT TO SEARCH!" and you don't argue with them because, hey... you don't feel like getting shot today?

 

[Trigger Time]

Is it really free and voluntary consent when you open your door to half a dozen armed men, pointing guns at you, saying "GET OUT HERE! AND WE WANT TO SEARCH!" and you don't argue with them because, hey... you don't feel like getting shot today?

That's the part that bothers me too. I do believe if someone would have closed their door and retreated they would have opened fire on the house. Of coarse that's just my belief and there's no way to prove it. The only thing I can use to bolster that arguement is what was stated when they approached the boat the suspect was in (first ones on the scene before the FBI HRT) they never visualy saw him with their own eyes to verify who it was in the boat, they then ordered him out and when there was no response they opened fire on the boat. The terrorist scum bag hadnt even fired at them. Our Leo members can correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that illegal? Or against policy? I think the whole thing from start to finish has major flaws and constitutional violations and will shape further policy in a good or bad way. I know it's easy to critisize from afar but we must examine these instances to better our future responses. Even in the military you review the action to see how it can be done better next time.

 

[rambone]

Rambone - if the police handed you an ironclad get-out-of-jail-free card regarding anything they might see on your property in exchange for the ability to access it in an emergency would you take them up on it?

No, honestly, my house is off limits. I wouldn't consent to any search just on principle. They are just going to have to take my word for it that I've got my own home under control.

It isn't because I have things to hide. It isn't because I want to be a pain in their ass. Its not because my decision "helps" bad guys. Simply put, nothing good can come from an invitation to the government to come into your home for a search. Its an unnecessary risk for everyone involved. Having a bunch of strangers wandering through a strange home with guns drawn, adrenaline pumping, and trigger fingers itching, is a disaster waiting to happen. We've all seen the stories of people and pets getting accidentally shot during search warrants. I wouldn't want my family exposed to it, and I don't want my personal space violated.

Frankly, I'm doing them a favor by not wasting their time. There aren't any terrorists in here.

 

[HmDBrian]

Ok, for everyone talking about reather or not rights were actually violated during this city lockdown, ill put it this way, forget that situation. Howabout the FACT of the rights being violated even before the suspect was found. They announced on the news that the city was going to perform random bag checks if you were carrying backpacks or bags. Now if they did this before they found them, what in the hell makes you think they were worried about peoplesrights during the pursuit of suspect 2?

 

[Trigger Time]

Ok, for everyone talking about reather or not rights were actually violated during this city lockdown, ill put it this way, forget that situation. Howabout the FACT of the rights being violated even before the suspect was found. They announced on the news that the city was going to perform random bag checks if you were carrying backpacks or bags. Now if they did this before they found them, what in the hell makes you think they were worried about peoplesrights during the pursuit of suspect 2?

This is true to a point. Is there any evidence that they forced people to be searched? What I'm saying is that if they came up to a guy an said we need to search your bag and the guy says I don't consent to any searches. Did they then proceed anyways? Is there proof this happened? If so then yes that's illegal and should be pursued.
These new "terrorism" statutes and the patriot act have muddied up the clarity of the laws so much that I don't think anyone even some Leo's know what's a legal search or not when the word terrorism is used. This is a big scary problem that needs solved fast. One day they are gonna violate the wrong persons rights and people will be hurt it killed when it could have been avoided.

 

[Kutnupe14]

To Kutnupe14, 88gt, Destro, and anyone else interested;

Here is more news coverage reaffirming what has been said all along. Another victim describes how involuntary these searches were. First words from the officers mouths were "GET OUT" as they stand there with guns drawn.

No one was allowed in or out. Total lockdown. First time in modern history that a governor has made such a declaration, according to WHDH 7NEWS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Gb6i5DF9k

I've already said that it probably did happen, but forgive me for being a lil suspect of a very animated guy wearing a fedora. But let's say he was expelled, and his house searched, without his consent. Upon the tens of thousands of residents that were in the "search zone," this is the FIRST instance of someone actually stating something like that. Surely there had to be at least a few tech savvy Libertarians, amongst all those sheeple, who wouldn't have taken a shine to their rights being trampled on, right? Where are their youtube complaints?

You have provided ONE, single instance, thus far, that may be valid. Comparatively, the Katrina fiasco (where I might add there a bunch of dumb people), had numerous negative accounts (and justifiably so). So I'll ask, which instance is more concerning, Boston or New Orleans? In a nation where people are talking about an increasing in the overstepping of the authority of police, and govt in general, it is obvious, that Boston (an event that took place well after New Orleans), is a FAR cry from Katrina. This is easily recognizeable to any person that, in the aftermath of Katrina, was horrified at the way LE conducted themselves. Given this, the question must be asked, "who is becoming increasingly irrational, the public or LE?"



But seriously, answer the question. Would you rather have a Boston response, of a Katrina response?

 

[Trigger Time]

I've already said that it probably did happen, but forgive me for being a lil suspect of a very animated guy wearing a fedora. But let's say he was expelled, and his house searched, without his consent. Upon the tens of thousands of residents that were in the "search zone," this is the FIRST instance of someone actually stating something like that. Surely there had to be at least a few tech savvy Libertarians, amongst all those sheeple, who wouldn't have taken a shine to their rights being trampled on, right? Where are their youtube complaints?

You have provided ONE, single instance, thus far, that may be valid. Comparatively, the Katrina fiasco (where I might add there a bunch of dumb people), had numerous negative accounts (and justifiably so). So I'll ask, which instance is more concerning, Boston or New Orleans? In a nation where people are talking about an increasing in the overstepping of the authority of police, and govt in general, it is obvious, that Boston (an event that place well after New Orleans), is a FAR cry from Katrina. This is easily recognizeable to any person that, in the aftermath of Katrina, was horrified at the way LE conducted themselves. Given this, the question must be asked, "who is becoming increasingly irrational, the public or LE?"



But seriously, answer the question. Would you rather have a Boston response, of a Katrina response?

In Indiana if the man would have opened fire he would have been within his legal right. So the question I pose is this. What happens when it does finally happen and I'm sure it will? What then? Does it help the people and recon firm the constitution or will law enforcement look for a martyr and press for law changes that hurt us civilians?
I've said before that I believe any person engaging in an illegal entry is subject to the same consequences and the laws backs this. Of coarse individuals have to make their own decisions on their actions. I'd prefer to live another day and use the court system later. But that's if rule of law still exists. If we are talking about being in the middle of a major disaster and the taking of my guns coup mean the death or harm of my family by criminals who now know we aren't armed then I'm not so sure I would peacefully allow them to be taken. No one knows till it happens what their actions will be.

 

[Prometheus]

I haven't read every reply in this dozen+ page thread but can anyone explain why women and young children are having guns pointed at them and being patted down after being removed from their homes?

They were looking for a 19 year old male, middle eastern complexion.

Why treat the women, young children, old men, black folks like 19 y/o terror suspects?

I also saw a post by someone on here justifying shoving guns into the face of women because "there were BOMBS!".

Really? Scared much?

Not to down play the events but living in fear is no way to go through life and trading Liberty for the illusion of security is pathetic.

I still don't know if the houses we've *seen* targeted were specifically targeted or just SOP for certain streets.

As to other residents not filming, you can see several videos / pics of cops pointing guns at people who are looking out their windows. I'm not surprised there isn't more video out there.

 

[yournamehere]

You must work for the MSM in some capacity. Perhaps as a sensationalism consultant?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[yournamehere]

We don't know enough (as usual with the OP) to make even half assed guesses here. Is this the house one of the brothers resided in or frequented?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[yournamehere]

You see unwarranted raids - I saw vigilant and persistent cops, following leads to find a bomb making house full of explosives and more dirtbags wearing suicide vests in a small town in America.

You see people being ripped from their homes - I saw a community coming together after having a horrific event and after being linked to their neighborhood, they still found ways to communicate within their area to update and inform each other of the latest information so they don't get their home and family blown up.

I was up ALL FREAKIN NIGHT listening to my own scanners and several scanner frequencies online, and a few news leads. When they shut down the system in the area, I could still hear what was going on through other departments.

The cops acted on leads and raided a hand full of houses. Those were your standard swat type "raids". The door to door searches that I saw via homeowners downloading vids online, were not like that at all. They were clearing homes in areas and busing the families out to a safer location.

We're talking BOMBS here!

This town had a confirmed cop and baby killer with confirmed IEDs and wearing a possible explosive vest. If this would have happened in my town, I would only hope that they were that focused in catching them too.

The people in that area were calling in to 911 everything they saw out of place throughout the whole ordeal. The cops were getting calls like - shed doors opened that were closed, suspicious bags and backpacks laying around, suspicious cars parked with the doors open, suspicious guys standing around, garage doors opened, etc...

I heard of several calls of a guy with a dark hoodie running around. The residents kept calling it in as well as the cops kept seeing and chasing him but they never caught him. All in different places that didn't make since like some kids were running around taunting them as if playing a game of tag.

Ultimately it was again a resident that called in about their boat that had blood stains and the cover looked to be messed with. The cops and the community came together and got the job done.

You conspiracy theorists, government activists or whatever you want to call yourselves today - Was the whole operation overkill? Maybe for an armed robber or a burglar, but this was a mass murdering bomber that had already killed and wounded many people and was held up in a residential neighborhood. Worst case scenario for any enforcement agency.

Kudos for cops - job well done.



If you think this is a slippery slope then get some better shoes!

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[rambone]

You have provided ONE, single instance, thus far, that may be valid.

As long as we ignore the photographs of people being marched around with their hands up, eyewitness accounts, media reports, and the governor's proud willingness to violate the 4th amendment.

So I'll ask, which instance is more concerning, Boston or New Orleans? In a nation where people are talking about an increasing in the overstepping of the authority of police, and govt in general, it is obvious, that Boston (an event that took place well after New Orleans), is a FAR cry from Katrina.

The abuses in NOLA were easy for people to get riled up over because there were no terrorists involved. Throw in a middle easterner and an explosion and Americans bend over backwards to justify house-to-house searches (and suspension of due process, and torture, and so on). Fear makes people give away their birthright, and terrorism works like a charm.

Given this, the question must be asked, "who is becoming increasingly irrational, the public or LE?"

Maybe I am missing the point, but I am increasingly disgusted with both. Society is not improving.

But seriously, answer the question. Would you rather have a Boston response, of a Katrina response?

The house-to-house searches were wrong either way. The other aspects of each case are too different to compare.