The Open Carry Argument

[2A_Tom]

I OC every where and hardly ever get any attention.

It is more comfortable, and I do believe it is a deterrent.

I have had 3 DGU's (never have drawn) two out side in cold weather when I was wearing a coat and one when someone walked in the front door. (dang kids left the door unlocked)

All three were when the subject could not tell I was armed.

I am afraid to CC.

 

[actaeon277]

Well, I'm posting this link. It says OC is BAD.

Friends Don?t Let Friends Open Carry | Active Response Training
Friends Don’t Let Friends Open Carry

He lists instances where OCers have had their guns taken.
He DOES NOT list instances where CCers have had their guns taken.
Would he then call for banning CC?

Regardless of carry, gun owners have had guns taken.
Should we then ban guns?

 

[rhino]

Well, I'm posting this link. It says OC is BAD.

Friends Don?t Let Friends Open Carry | Active Response Training
Friends Don’t Let Friends Open Carry

He lists instances where OCers have had their guns taken.
He DOES NOT list instances where CCers have had their guns taken.
Would he then call for banning CC?

Regardless of carry, gun owners have had guns taken.
Should we then ban guns?

Here is some exceptional irony:

A wake up call is in order….

Some people are smart enough to change their preconceived opinions when confronted with overwhelming evidence showing that they are wrong. It is those people I’m trying to reach by writing this article. I hope that the evidence I present below might better inform your opinion.

 

[2A_Tom]

 

[Dead Duck]

Well, I'm posting this link. It says OC is BAD.

Friends Don?t Let Friends Open Carry | Active Response Training
Friends Don’t Let Friends Open Carry

He lists instances where OCers have had their guns taken.
He DOES NOT list instances where CCers have had their guns taken.
Would he then call for banning CC?

Regardless of carry, gun owners have had guns taken.
Should we then ban guns?

Thank you for the info.

And a special thanks to Greg Ellifritz from-
Active Response Training and Consulting, LLC

You will never get any money from my friends, family or myself. I believe that training is an important step to better ourselves and be prepared for what we hope never happens. I also believe you should carefully pick a trainer that isn't a complete nincompoop.

Greg Ellifritz from Active Response Training and Consulting, LLC will now go on my list right under James Yeager from Tactical Response because -
Yeager is a Coward.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Same old tired arguments.

 

[Karl Fairburne]

Big THUMBS UP on your post!

 

[wtburnette]

I agree that the article was very slanted. There is some good information, but it's lost in opinion. To me, it's like reading an article posted by a gun control advocate, trying to make their case and seem reasonable. Not putting in any facts that might hurt their case. How many concealed carriers had their weapons stolen? How many people were targeted because they were concealed carrying and the perpetrator thought they would be an easy victim? If you truly want to make a case, present both sides as evenly as facts would allow. Not doing so shows that you are prejudiced in your opinion.

Life is risk. There is risk in carrying concealed, there is risk in carrying openly and there is risk in not carrying at all. It's up to us to decide where the least amount of risk is, for us and our situation and act accordingly.

 

[CraigAPS]

I agree that the article was very slanted. There is some good information, but it's lost in opinion. To me, it's like reading an article posted by a gun control advocate, trying to make their case and seem reasonable. Not putting in any facts that might hurt their case. How many concealed carriers had their weapons stolen? How many people were targeted because they were concealed carrying and the perpetrator thought they would be an easy victim? If you truly want to make a case, present both sides as evenly as facts would allow. Not doing so shows that you are prejudiced in your opinion.

Life is risk. There is risk in carrying concealed, there is risk in carrying openly and there is risk in not carrying at all. It's up to us to decide where the least amount of risk is, for us and our situation and act accordingly.

Well said!

I must admit, I do not open carry, but, if I had a mind to, the article Actaeon posted certainly wouldn't convince me not to. I don't normally visit this thread. I just wanted to see what post number it was on! That being said, I've seen better arguments by 18 year old first year college students. As WTBurnette notes, leaving any contrary evidence as though it doesn't exist hurts the authors point. Likewise, not refuting arguments in favor of OC (aside from the couple mentioned), not explaining his evidence and trying to let it speak for itself, and not looking at successes as well as failures of CC all hurt his power to persuade. I realize he probably had a target word count range, but I would expect more, if someone is actually attempting to change someone's mind.

 

[Karl Fairburne]

You lost me when I had to tell how many store fronts and fire hydrants and all the other stupid pictures there were.

 

[engi-ninja]

A gas station attendant became super chatty with me the other day when he saw me OCing, and went on to talk about how he usually open carries, but always has a backup on his ankle. I'm all for having a backup, but he specifically stated that the reason for his backup was in case his OC gun gets taken from him. It seems to me that, if you're anticipating having your gun taken from you, you're doing it wrong. It kind of seems like, if there's really a good chance of having one's OC gun taken, it would be better to CC; on the other hand, it also seems like it should be possible prevent someone taking your gun by practicing good situational awareness. Thoughts on this? Do other folks anticipate their OC gun being taken?

 

[wtburnette]

Seems to me that situational awareness, retention and proper training are mitigation for the risk of having your gun stolen from you if you're OCing. I see nothing wrong with a BUG being carried on the offhand chance that those three things fail. I personally don't feel the need to carry a BUG, but I certainly wouldn't tell someone else not to do so, or see a problem with it.

 

[Anima mundi]

Sounds like you talked to someone who hasn't tried drawing his ankle gun on a timer.

If I ever feel like I for some reason will have limited SA or slow reaction times, then I conceal. I don't go places where I anticipate having someone get handsy in spite of/because of having a gun in the open and if I do I bring a friend. Anybody who's planning for a contingency in which their primary defensive weapon is completely taken from them has already lost the fight as far as I'm concerned. Like calling the fire department only after your house has burned down.

 

[engi-ninja]

That's kind of what I was thinking. Glad I'm not the only one.

 

[Dead Duck]

Ankle carry is fine. I do in winter or on long car trips as my 2nd BUG.

You can never have too many.

 

[2A_Tom]

That would be your Tertiary Adjunct.

When you start carrying Nine you can call that one Seven.

 

[rhino]

That would be your Tertiary Adjunct.

When you start carrying Nine you can call that one Seven.

Why would he want to cut back to carrying only nine guns?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

https://www.personaldefenseworld.co...645Z3ibhD4QZNgN9OapL28KusMHtbXKnYHFbMvf-_OvoA

 

[MCgrease08]

https://www.personaldefenseworld.co...645Z3ibhD4QZNgN9OapL28KusMHtbXKnYHFbMvf-_OvoA

The suspect, Melvin Bogus, allegedly confronted a man legally carrying a long gun, two handguns and a large knife openly. Bogus supposedly asked the gun owner “Why you wanna kill people?” The open carry advocate responded that it was for protection and because it was his right.

Police say that’s when Bogus walked up and forcibly yanked one of the handguns from the man’s holster. He then pointed it at the unidentified victim. In response, the open carry advocate then aimed his long gun at Bogus, creating a short, tense situation. However, Bogus then took off with the handgun. Luckily, neither fired any shots.

A couple of comments ...

1. If you're going to open carry, use an active retention holster and be aware and capable enough to defend against a gun grab.

2. If someone grabs your gun and points it back at you, consider that a deadly threat. Don't just point your second gun at the threat and hope he walks away. End the threat.

This guy obviously doesn't take his own "protection" as seriously as he should.

 

[2A_Tom]

And, Sir what is your opinion of this anecdote?

Here is one, I am very close to a fellow that has carried openly thousands of hours and has never had this kind of interaction. He avoids places where he feels this type of thing could happen. He practices situational awareness when in proximity to others and is even on alert when he sees no one else around. He would never say that he is absolutely sure this could never happen, but works at not putting self in bad situations.

It is NOT a sign of mental illness to refer to yourself in the third person occasionally.