The Open Carry Argument

[actaeon277]

Trying to steer this back on topic.

It occurs to me that virtually the only place I get hassled for OC is right here on INGO.

Really.

Holy Poop Batman.
I never noticed that, till you pointed it out.

 

[ATM]

Trying to steer this back on topic.

Thank you.

It occurs to me that virtually the only place I get hassled for OC is right here on INGO.

Really.

Virtual hassling.

Must be some sense of online anonymity that empowers some folks with the boldness needed to correct us poor deluded OCers...

 

[AlwaysVigilant]

I have never posted in an OC thread for obvious reasons, they are never fruitful as people are pretty much convinced on their default mode, and for the record, I have no problem with that, and have carried both ways. Since the discussion here is civil, I figured what the heck...so here it goes.

I prefer concealed carry to open carry.

I am not in the camp of you will be the first one shot...there is no evidence of this outside of operating in known hostile environments, and there is just as much logic and evidence in this argument as there is in the argument that OCing prevents attack. Both make sense hypothetically, and are impossible to prove.

Not being a target of violent crime is a multi-layered skill set that involves all sorts of things such as awareness, body language, presence, fitness level, and confidence. Being squared away in this manner could be enhanced by open carry, but isn't proven necessary to get the same effect of being left alone.

Open carry is possible to be faster out of the holster, depending on the person and how its being carried, but again, not the same for everyone.

Now for why I conceal my firearm. First of all, there are places where carrying open is less permissible than others due to the environment, culture of the people there, etc. I would rather be armed and unnoticed in those situations, than to draw attention to myself and possibly ruin the enjoyment of what I am there for due to interpersonal conflict.

Second, after many hours of force on force training, it is illuminating to know just how difficult it can be to get your gun out if the person attacking you knows it is there before the fight starts. It is quite simple to impede a draw stroke if you know someone is going for a visible weapon. If you haven't done this kind of work, do yourself a favor, and give it a try. It will reset some of your preconceptions about gun fighting.

Because of reasons one and two, I want to make sure I am used to carrying that way, and practice makes perfect.

Lastly, I want to be left alone while I am out living my life. I don't carry my gun to make political statements (though I know those that do, and agree there is a time for that too), I carry it to defend myself and that which I hold dear. To the extent that I can go about my business unmolested by anyone, the better.

My . Thanks for reading.

 

[vanillagorilla]

This is a huge thread and I have not been able to read every single post as I am busy protecting and serving other peoples rights to do whatever is legal.

While OC may be legal, I have seen many people exercise their rights while wearing an Uncle Mikes open top nylon belt clip holster to safely "secure" their Hi-point 9mm.

While I have nothing personally against Uncle Mikes or Hi-point firearms, I do wonder what that individual would do when he trips and sends his weapon spinning into the candy aisle at Walmart. Or God forbid, if he does get into a situation where he needed his weapon, only to fumble with it doing the pee-pee dance trying to get it.

Open carry is fine if done safely and responsibly but no one on this site can tell me that they have not seen or know of Bubba as I've described him above. And if you don't or haven't there is a good chance you might be him. Uninformed and dangerous people are the ones that ruin it for everyone else. That's why the media finds the one guy with no teeth and minus IQ after the tornado hits the trailer park. That's what they think we all are.

That being said, if I was in a bad situation on the job with no back up, I would not hesitate in taking help from an armed responsible civilian.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

This is a huge thread and I have not been able to read every single post as I am busy protecting and serving other peoples rights to do whatever is legal.

While OC may be legal, I have seen many people exercise their rights while wearing an Uncle Mikes open top nylon belt clip holster to safely "secure" their Hi-point 9mm.

While I have nothing personally against Uncle Mikes or Hi-point firearms, I do wonder what that individual would do when he trips and sends his weapon spinning into the candy aisle at Walmart. Or God forbid, if he does get into a situation where he needed his weapon, only to fumble with it doing the pee-pee dance trying to get it.

Open carry is fine if done safely and responsibly but no one on this site can tell me that they have not seen or know of Bubba as I've described him above. And if you don't or haven't there is a good chance you might be him. Uninformed and dangerous people are the ones that ruin it for everyone else. That's why the media finds the one guy with no teeth and minus IQ after the tornado hits the trailer park. That's what they think we all are.

That being said, if I was in a bad situation on the job with no back up, I would not hesitate in taking help from an armed responsible civilian.

I can't disagree with your point about safely carrying a firearm.

This does not only apply to OC but to CC as well, right?

 

[AlwaysVigilant]

I can't disagree with your point about safely carrying a firearm.

This does not only apply to OC but to CC as well, right?

Yes, yes it does.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I can't disagree with your point about safely carrying a firearm.

This does not only apply to OC but to CC as well, right?

That is what I got out of it, more of a rant about ANY carriers who do it irresponsibly not necessarily OC. I have seen several "CCers" carry without a holster of any sort be it a Kel Tec in their back pocket or a Bersa or even 1911 in their waistband Mexican style.

Taking that logic all the gangbangers and thug wannabes I know of ALL carry concealed. You must admit there is a certain "sneaky" mindset that goes into actively hiding something from view of other people.

 

[danielson]

Yeah, I could never get behind CC myself, I mean after all, theres no possible way to safely carry a weapon concealed. If you could use something like....maybe...say...a holster especially made for carrying a firearm concealed, then I could see conceal carrying.

But since the only way to CC, is condition 1, in my front pocket, I guess I will have to open carry. After all, Its the ONLY way to safely carry a firearm.

Sorry, I felt it would be too much purple.

 

[Dead Duck]

Yeah, I could never get behind CC myself, I mean after all, theres no possible way to safely carry a weapon concealed. If you could use something like....maybe...say...a holster especially made for carrying a firearm concealed, then I could see conceal carrying.

But since the only way to CC, is condition 1, in my front pocket, I guess I will have to open carry. After all, Its the ONLY way to safely carry a firearm.

See -

I knew you'd come around. CC is for p*****s.

Remember, criminals conceal.




OC - The Common Sense Carry

 

[danielson]

And for those just tuning into this pointless dispute, theres:

SIDE 1: Open Carry

SIDE 2: Concealed Carry

AND for those of us who are tired of the pointless, chest thumping BS

Introducing: JUST ****ING CARRY

 

[stephen87]

Trying to steer this back on topic.

It occurs to me that virtually the only place I get hassled for OC is right here on INGO.

Really.

You should pick a new group of people to hang out with.

 

[ATM]

And for those just tuning into this pointless dispute, theres:

SIDE 1: Open Carry

SIDE 2: Concealed Carry

AND for those of us who are tired of the pointless, chest thumping BS

Introducing: JUST ****ING CARRY

There are 282,431 other threads on INGO with easier points to comprehend, but I have the sneaking suspicion that you secretly enjoy this one.

 

[danielson]

I do enjoy a good BS session.

 

[buckstopshere]

A lil something for everybody

 

[waross]

While the article relates the thoughts of the average scumbag out there that is looking to rape or rob someone, it does not take into account the deranged pyschopath that jusst wanted to kill and mame as many people aas he can before turning the gun on himself or will continue to kill until taken down like a rabid dog. These people are not rational and they often have prepared for a battle and have learned battle tactics and to pick out the prime targets or obstacles in their way. The open carry just presents that target. As for the average scumbag, the author hits the nail on the head. You don't present yourself as a victim. You don't put yourself in a situation where the crime is able to be committed.
I carry a handgun 80% of the time and the other 20% of the time there is a firearm within reach in case it is needed. Very rarely would one know I am carrying and I prefer it that way. Because I will see the scumbag coming and be prepared for his futile attempt.
And in the case of a madman he is going to start shooting as quickly ass possible and if he is sshooting at the guy with opne carry I will have a few seconds more to draw, aim and make three decivise shots, two to the chest and one to the head, because usually the madman is also wearing a bulletproof vest.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

Okay, dude. Whatever.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Okay, dude. Whatever.

 

[ATM]

While the article relates the thoughts of the average scumbag out there that is looking to rape or rob someone, it does not take into account the deranged pyschopath that jusst wanted to kill and mame as many people aas he can before turning the gun on himself or will continue to kill until taken down like a rabid dog...

That's because in this article, the author focuses more on risk management and the statistical reality of which types of crimes and criminals one is most likely to face.

Which makes more sense to you, managing primarily for the many common criminals committing multiple crimes against multiple victims during the course of their often lifelong careers, or managing for the extremely rare active shooter who will commit his one big crime before being killed or locked away forever?

Sure, the obscure hypothetical possibility sounds more exciting than what commonly happens, but that is no reason to give it undue weight when actually considering how carry method fits into your personal safety and protection plan.

I do hope you always see the scumbag coming, as you later suggested in your post. I hope it always works out for you like it does in the movies when the good guy wins against all odds, "surprising" his assailant and dispatching them with 2 and 1 like a boss.

But hope isn't a plan.

 

[waross]

There is no such thing as statistical reality, One can make the statistics support whatever position they are attempting to push. Reality is dealing with the victims and offenders for many years to understand the mentality behind their actions. Average Joe Dirtbag the local thug will look for the easiest target he can so that he presents himself as the badest apple around; thereby intimidating the victim. Most victims put themselves knowingly or unknowingly into a bad situation. The majority of the so called victims were possibly not so innocent themselves. I remember quite a few years ago about two guys who lived out in the country came into the inner city and got shot and killed. The News media hyped it up that these two poor innocent guys had gotten lost driving their RV around. The facts were they both were drug users, both owned the drug dealer from previous dealings, were trying to buy more drugs at 2 am in the morning in the projects and they wanted to argue with the dealer about his quality and prices. Did they deserve to get shot and killed. No. However did they initiate a course of action which ultimately cost them their lives. Yes. But the media would have it they were just a couple of innocent folks out for a Sunday drive. Yes it was 2 am on a Sunday morning.

And as for the untreated mental patient who has killed everyone in every video game and now is bored and off his meds, he doesn't care who he kills but will kill just because he needs some attention or his mind has convinced him that all should die just like his video game. He sees no difference between make believe and real world. He just wants the rush. This is the guy you want to not be the first victim of. You want a second or two to take aim, check your backstop and take him down.

 

[CPT Nervous]

We heard you the first time.