Tactical Response at it again. Dangerous and Unprofessional ?

[CavMedic]

Meh

 

[2A_Tom]

Dupe.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-response-again-dangerous-unprofessional.html

 

[BADWOLF]

OMG.......Speechless!!!!!

Where can I find a cool range like that! I have always wanted to stand in between the targets as guys shoot at them.......PLEASE!

Chicken.... Bawk. b. b. b. bawk

 

[6mm Shoot]

I have a camera that has a remote so you can set it up and not have to be in the line of fire. That just seems so dangerous to be in front of someone firing in your direction. I don't want to play. Sooner or later someone is going to get hurt.

 

[KG1]

I support negligent discharges. **** happens. No big whoop is my motto. Sometimes you gotta take the risk of an ND happening for the greater good of all mankind.

 

[in625shooter]

This is a serious question and one much bigger than Yeager or Tactical Response.

Would you refuse to train with an instructor who did something stupid and had an ND? I wouldnt challenge you if you did. But it would rule out a lot of quality training. Travis Haley had one on video. Even Col Cooper had an ND in his office!

Ive never had an ND in over 30 years of shooting but in the same breath, id say that every time i handle a gun the potential is there and i need to handle it with that thought in mind. I do believe it can happen to anyone.

In Haley's defense he was demonstrating WHY that technique was bad but the difference is he still had the weapon pointed DOWN RANGE. Not throwing the firearm down with the muzzlebgoing any which direction.

That is the bigger difference. (along with the whole running down range in front of students with unknown skill firing but that's another issue)

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This is a serious question and one much bigger than Yeager or Tactical Response.

Would you refuse to train with an instructor who did something stupid and had an ND? I wouldnt challenge you if you did. But it would rule out a lot of quality training. Travis Haley had one on video. Even Col Cooper had an ND in his office!

It depends. If you have an AD down range and don't endanger anyone, meh, that happens. Shoot long enough and you're going to accidentally send a bullet you didn't want to, and that could be from a revolver double tap, a mechanical failure letting a gun go full auto, or just getting on the trigger to early and sending one in the dirt instead of in the target. People are human and guns are machines, both can screw up. Doing something that needlessly endangers people and having an ND that results in property damage and does not result in personal injury due to the Grace of God and not due to your safety plan? Yes, you are off my list.

There is a difference between a mistake vs a lack of judgement and a training philosophy that encourages risk in drills where safer methods are well proven.

Am I the only one that finds it not disturbing that Yeager js allowed to be a public voice for the gun culture in this country the man is an embarrassment.

Apparently not. However this is the Reality TV era. The more you mimic reality TV the more successful you are among a surprisingly large segment of the population, from politics to gun training. There are a lot of Kardashians in the training industry.

Yeager's 2nd reason for dropping your gun in a training class is true, necessary and often over looked.
When the cops show up (other than with witty Gifs) drop the gun, it is not time to talk, don't re-holster, just drop it. It is unnatural to drop a gun without hesitation, that is why it should be practiced.

You're right. The question is, is dropping a live gun and stepping on it the best way to teach that? Even if you don't step on it, you've introduced the possibility of damage beyond cosmetic, knocking sights out of alignment, cracking tritium vials on night sights, etc. Ever had a sight that was loose start migrating under recoil? I have. I'll not be dropping my EDC just to get used to dropping things. This is why we have replica guns and sims. Yeager's wooden gun could be used to accomplish the same thing. You know how to drop something, what you're training is the mind set, and that doesn't require a real gun to be dropped. We used to use blocks of wood to simulate a ticket book so you had something to drop on simulated car stops. The fact it's wood (or a red gun) doesn't change the training objectives or outcomes.

 

[in625shooter]

It depends. If you have an AD down range and don't endanger anyone, meh, that happens. Shoot long enough and you're going to accidentally send a bullet you didn't want to, and that could be from a revolver double tap, a mechanical failure letting a gun go full auto, or just getting on the trigger to early and sending one in the dirt instead of in the target. People are human and guns are machines, both can screw up. Doing something that needlessly endangers people and having an ND that results in property damage and does not result in personal injury due to the Grace of God and not due to your safety plan? Yes, you are off my list.

There is a difference between a mistake vs a lack of judgement and a training philosophy that encourages risk in drills where safer methods are well proven.

^^TRUE^^ Go to any IPSC match on any IPSC weekend and you will se a couple. it happens but within the confines of the range acceptable. If it is in the direction of the target not a penalty, lower in the dirt (say when making ready) they are DQ's for the day but are allowed to cone back to participate. (CZ's had a rash of AD's due to the decocking process), You will even see someone drop a gun by accident here or there, It happens. But throw a tantrum and throw a gun down on purpose they will probably be banished.

The thing is, most places aniticpate an AD happening. Why do you think the Militay and most LE agencies utilize clearing barrels. It because they know at some point it will happen. The difference is as long as you keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction os their is ZERO human contact and MINIMAL property damage your golden.

 

[Gluemanz28]

You just proved James Yeager right.

Nope my post didn't prove whether JT is right or wrong. My post said I don't like his style. Your beliefs are what they are and what determines if he is right or not.

Maybe I can use the Dr Suess approach?
I would not train with him on any range, his tight tee shirt and go tee is kinda strange.
His training methods are not very sound, my fighting weapon doesn't get thrown to the ground.

 

[Sylvain]

I support James Yeager.

I support Trigger Time.

 

[Sylvain]

Nope my post didn't prove whether JT is right or wrong. My post said I don't like his style. Your beliefs are what they are and what determines if he is right or not.

Maybe I can use the Dr Suess approach?
I would not train with him on any range, his tight tee shirt and go tee is kinda strange.
His training methods are not very sound, my fighting weapon doesn't get thrown to the ground.

Maybe you should carry another gun then.
That's Yeager's point, if you're not willng to drop your gun on the ground during training then you will not do so when a dozen of cops show up and tell you to drop your gun NOW.And you will end up shot by the police.

If you don't want any scratch on your "fighting weapon" maybe you should keep it in nice foam box, in your safe.

 

[Woobie]

I support safe firearms handling, adult thinking, and sound judgement.

 

[Woobie]

BS, Yeager is throwing out excuses in the middle of damage control. I'll drop my pistol when the cops tell me to, but I'm not stomping on it. And if that really needs to be practiced, let's do it in a way that doesn't endanger people, property, or the reputation of responsible gun owners. If you guys really think what this guy is passing off as quality training is tactically sound, I can't help you. Watching some of the videos of the classes should help you see the light, but if not, enjoy wasting your money.

 

[Sylvain]

I support safe firearms handling, adult thinking, and sound judgement.

Why are you on INGO???

 

[GIJEW]

My latest training at Tactical Response. Thanks to printcraft for filming...

Kirk, any constructive criticism?

He'd be more effective if he just put that AK on full auto and left his pistol in the holster, that way he would SEE all of what he was shooting at. It wouldnt be as "hollywood", shooting 2 guns but he would get to do a couple "fling-the-empty-mag" reloads.

 

[churchmouse]

Maybe you should carry another gun then.
That's Yeager's point, if you're not willng to drop your gun on the ground during training then you will not do so when a dozen of cops show up and tell you to drop your gun NOW.And you will end up shot by the police.

If you don't want any scratch on your "fighting weapon" maybe you should keep it in nice foam box, in your safe.

Slowly lowering my gun to the ground by the grip should not get me shot.
Throwing/dropping a loaded/cocked gun to the ground might get someone shot.

 

[T.Lex]

Is there some room for INGO consensus that stepping on and spinning a loaded firearm outdoors, as something that is routine, is a bad idea?

I mean, is that too much to ask?

Are there not other ways to make the point without such recklessness?

 

[KG1]

Is there some room for INGO consensus that stepping on and spinning a loaded firearm outdoors, as something that is routine, is a bad idea?

I mean, is that too much to ask?

Are there not other ways to make the point without such recklessness?

Nope. Sometimes you gotta get a little reckless to make a point.

 

[T.Lex]

Nope. Sometimes you gotta get a little reckless to make a point.

Color my curious.

Two things:
1) Do you consider stepping on and spinning a loaded firearm "a little reckless" or more than that?
2) What is the compelling reason to make THAT point THAT way?

ETA:

It isn't the odds, its the stakes.

 

[Tombs]

Slowly lowering my gun to the ground by the grip should not get me shot.
Throwing/dropping a loaded/cocked gun to the ground might get someone shot.

I agree, dropping a gun is reckless as you aren't following the 4 rules, opening the door for someone to take a bullet which WILL get you shot if the police tell you to drop your gun.

I'd rather RISK being shot than drop a firearm and have it discharge which would assuredly get me shot.

Could have a million safety systems, and if something manages to strike the trigger just right, you're screwed.